The England Squad thread

[St. Juste]

Karamoko Dembele will be representing England against Turkey U15 in December. Cue a torrent of social media abuse hurled at the thirteen year old by Scotland supporters

https://www.instagram.com/p/BM9tOTFju75/

No footballer deserved to be abused, ever, let alone a 13 year old, but you are naive in the extreme if you believe the reaction wouldn't have been exactly the same were the reverse not happening.

Of course, in reality the reverse would never happen - the English FA is the richest in the world and can offer substantial inducements to players and their families. The overwhelming likelihood is that Dembele will not make it in football, and it makes sense for him to try and cash out now.

We've seen this before with Burke and the FA making a significant effort to take our most promising young players and, you'd imagine, those of the other home nations and elsewhere. Again, this makes perfect logical sense, but it does make a bit of a mockery of international future when a nation of 50 million people feels it necessary to steal from a nation of 5 million people.

My expectation is that Dembele will, eventually, be shown up to be not very good and will return to the Scotland fold. I fully expect the same to happen to Sam Gallagher.

And inside, any romanticism associated with football dies a little more.

 

[Krazy8]

when a nation of 50 million people feels it necessary to steal from a nation of 5 million people.

He was born in London. Hardly stealing is it?

 

[St. Juste]

He was born in London. Hardly stealing is it?

Well, he moved to Scotland when he was 5, played his entire footballing career in Scotland, and has already played for Scotland Under 16s. Neither of his parents are English. I think it's clearly stealing no matter how you look at it.

In more general terms, Scotland have greatly suffered from the lack of immigration north of the border. Men of West African descent are proportionally greatly over-represented in football - across many European countries - and Scotland just has hardly any of them. And even the ones we do have get stolen by England - as has happened here.

When moving to the UK immigrants are far more likely to stay in England - where they almost exclusively first arrive. Scotland has suffered greatly culturally, economically and in footballing terms from this. We need inducements to get more immigrants north of the border.

 

[JimJams]

Maybe Scotland doesn't make it's 'Men of West African descent' feel welcome.

 

[St. Juste]

Maybe Scotland doesn't make it's 'Men of West African descent' feel welcome.

Well, very few arrive.

I think the recent EU referendum result gave an indication into Scottish attitudes towards immigration relative to England and Wales - think more progressive Scandinavian than Nativist.

Certainly the Indian and Pakistani Asian community have thrived in Scotland, very few other groups have made the journey in significant numbers.

Nigel Farage hid in a pub and accused Scottish people of being racist towards him when he last visited. So there's that.

 

[JimJams]

Nigel Farage is actually of West African descent. His whiteface ain't fooling anybody.

 

[MJA]

Footballers should only be able to represent the country of their BIRTH, so in this case it is right for this youngster to be playing for the England youth sides. All of this 'I had a grandfather who once went on holiday to Brazil so this makes me eligible to play football for them' is just bollocks. Won't be long until there is a transfer system in place for international football

 

[St. Juste]

Footballers should only be able to represent the country of their BIRTH, so in this case it is right for this youngster to be playing for the England youth sides. All of this 'I had a grandfather who once went on holiday to Brazil so this makes me eligible to play football for them' is just bollocks. Won't be long until there is a transfer system in place for international football

The birth system is riddled with flaws too. That would have meant Shaun Maloney, the most stereotypical Scottish guy ever (in voice and appearance) turning out for.....Malaysia.

Or Patrick Vieira turning out for Senegal despite moving to France as a 4 year old who was, guess what, not an international footballer at that stage.

There are very few good ways to do it, but best is probably schooling from age 5 onwards as that is where a kid actually becomes a footballer. How this would work in reality would be the biggest clubs hoarding the best players at an even younger age.

Of course, Dembele will be far more Scottish than English - and this will be very obvious when he does his first interview. He's followed the cash though, and why wouldn't you as a 13 year old who still likely won't make it.

The most obvious comparison is Islam Feruz whose career has been a car crash from start to finish - and who also threatened to leave the SFA for some African side.

 

[SALTIRE]

Maybe Scotland doesn't make it's 'Men of West African descent' feel welcome.

Don't see why not, we're more tolerant than the English.

 

[JimJams]

No self respecting Scotsman would choose cash over country though surely.

 

[JimJams]

Don't see why not, we're more tolerant than the English.

Ah you see there's your downfall Salts. More 'tolerant'? So you 'tolerate' immigrants do you? Doesn't sound all that welcoming to me mate.
I mean I tolerate G-Dragon. Just about. Not a particularly positive endorsement is it?
I embrace Salts. Embrace. Tolerate that!

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

No footballer deserved to be abused, ever, let alone a 13 year old, but you are naive in the extreme if you believe the reaction wouldn't have been exactly the same were the reverse not happening.

Then why doesn't it? We recently lost Iwobi to Nigeria. I don't recall must abuse being directed his way.

Nigel Farage hid in a pub and accused Scottish people of being racist towards him when he last visited. So there's that.

What you mean is the "tolerant" Scots attacked him in the street and forced him and his entourage to seek shelter in a pub.

 

[Reaper]

Ironic that a load of Scots are moaning over this 1 player when alot of players in their squad are mostly English with English accents like Matt Ritchie for example who never been to Scotland before he played his first match.

 

[Stevencc]

Don't see why not, we're more tolerant than the English.

But not women, right Salty? Or Americans. Or the English. Or non-SNP voting Scots. Or United fans.

You are the least tolerant person on here besides JohnnyTodd and G-Dragon!

 

[Super_horns]

One MP seems to have a simple solution for our woes..

Select more players who go to a state school..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...m-under-performs-has-many-privately-educated/

If only it was that easy!

 

[SALTIRE]

But not women, right Salty? Or Americans. Or the English. Or non-SNP voting Scots. Or United fans.

You are the least tolerant person on here besides JohnnyTodd and G-Dragon!

I've got nothing against women at all, though some are odious. And there are some decent Yanks now and again granted. The rest though (I'd accept Labour supporting Scots being one myself for years); well yeah, they can get tae fuck!

 

[Stevencc]

I've got nothing against women at all, though some are odious. And there are some decent Yanks now and again granted. The rest though (I'd accept Labour supporting Scots being one myself for years); well yeah, they can get tae fuck!

Let's say you met a proud SNP-voting Scottish Manchester United fan with a tattoo of Sir Alex Ferguson on his helmet at a whisky tasting event. How would you react?

(you noticed the tattoo in the mens toilets, I don't know why you were looking).

 

[epic73]

And there are some decent Yanks now and again granted.

Like me...

 

[SALTIRE]

Let's say you met a proud SNP-voting Scottish Manchester United fan with a tattoo of Sir Alex Ferguson on his helmet at a whisky tasting event. How would you react?

(you noticed the tattoo in the mens toilets, I don't know why you were looking).

Helmet? I wouldn't be looking at his knob mate! And anyway if he had a tattoo of SAF there as well, I'd be worried for him and at the same time know we'd never get along.

 

[SALTIRE]

Like me...

But you are a Utd fan epic...

 

[epic73]

But you are a Utd fan epic...

I support Chicken Inn F.C.

 

[St. Juste]

No self respecting Scotsman would choose cash over country though surely.

I think they all would to be honest. I'm Scottish as well as being a fan of Scotland, but if the FA offered a million pounds per game to play for them...well it's no choice at all really. And just like Grealish choosing England due to increased sponsorship money etc., that figure may not be too outlandish for some players in the future.

Then why doesn't it? We recently lost Iwobi to Nigeria. I don't recall must abuse being directed his way.

What you mean is the "tolerant" Scots attacked him in the street and forced him and his entourage to seek shelter in a pub.

A few points here. First of all, I actually do recall him being criticised - Victor Moses too - maybe you weren't looking hard enough. Secondly, how well known was he at the time? I don't recall him playing very often, or being a youtube star like Dembele.

Thirdly, Nigeria and England aren't exactly footballing rivals. If a 17 Owen or Rooney had chosen to represent, say, Germany or Argentina, would he have been abused? Hmm, I do believe they would have been. And given the perchance of some English fans to threaten referees, maybe it would have been far worse than that.

Of course Grealish made the switch, and was also abused, so hardly unique to Scotland. Although not condoning it in any sense, not acceptable no matter who is doing it.

Attacked? That's over egging it a bit - I think he had an egg thrown at him and some hurtful chants directed at him -- fairly standard politician stuff, the reasons given were that people did not like his intolerant policies on things such as immigration. So, yes, absolutely indicating tolerance, if a slightly odd and cringeworthy way of doing it. .

Of course, Farage throw his toys out the pram and claimed people racially abused him because he is English. Which was rather a surprise for the hundreds of thousands of English people who live in Scotland, and have never been abused once. Farage and UKIP are despised in Scotland. Which is good. A truly awful bunch of people, I would never turn up to chant at anyone though, I just have much better things to do.

Ironic that a load of Scots are moaning over this 1 player when alot of players in their squad are mostly English with English accents like Matt Ritchie for example who never been to Scotland before he played his first match.

To quote Ed Byrne song "that's not irony".

The reason is obvious, I'm sure Matt Ritchie does consider himself English - he only plays for Scotland because he isn't good enough for England. We know this, he knows it, so long as he turns up and tries nobody will be mind. And Ritchie has been a good player for Scotland.

I'd say the majority of English and Welsh people have never been to Scotland, it's neither surprising nor concerning, and on the up side it upsetted some of our nationalist idiots.

No Scottish fans cared when Owen Coyle played for Ireland because he was never good enough for Scotland anyway, with McCarthy and McGeady the situation was very different. As it is with Dembele.

 

[SALTIRE]

Never forgiven Ray Houghton personally.

 

[JimJams]

Is that cos you've never met him personally?

 

[Skinner]

Ironic that a load of Scots are moaning over this 1 player when alot of players in their squad are mostly English with English accents like Matt Ritchie for example who never been to Scotland before he played his first match.

Bang on.

Scotland, Ireland and Wales are all the same, whine like little fucking girls when the next big thing (actually a flop that falls to non-league mostly) turns to England, but are happy to see players born in London, Birmingham, Carlisle play for their sides. Pathetic small man syndrome.

 

[mnb089mnb]

Bang on.

Scotland, Ireland and Wales are all the same, whine like little fucking girls when the next big thing (actually a flop that falls to non-league mostly) turns to England, but are happy to see players born in London, Birmingham, Carlisle play for their sides. Pathetic small man syndrome.

Your post is a bit silly.

Bit at the end made me laugh though as a 13 year old boy is a small man.

 

[mnb089mnb]

Let's say you met a proud SNP-voting Scottish Manchester United fan with a tattoo of Sir Alex Ferguson on his helmet at a whisky tasting event. How would you react?

(you noticed the tattoo in the mens toilets, I don't know why you were looking).

I'm imagining a Scotsman yelling

IT'S FERGIE TIME!

before copulating now.

 

[Skinner]

Your post is a bit silly.

Bit at the end made me laugh though as a 13 year old boy is a small man.

I know, I was expecting a better response than that

 

[St. Juste]

Bang on.

Scotland, Ireland and Wales are all the same, whine like little fucking girls when the next big thing (actually a flop that falls to non-league mostly) turns to England, but are happy to see players born in London, Birmingham, Carlisle play for their sides. Pathetic small man syndrome.

Except I've already clearly answered why that's not ironic - at all.

FWIW, we would gladly trade Ritchie, Martin etc. for the genuine Scotsmen we have lost - McGeady and McCarthy, and now Dembele.

Whilst you are at it, you can give Sterling back to Jamaica, Hargreaves back to Canada and where do you stand on those where one or both parents aren't from England - Welbeck, Alli etc.?

Please read the thread before diving in with incorrect assumptions.

 

[Stagat]

See if Wilfried Zaha is met with abuse or apathy now then.