The Labour Thread

[Aber gas]

Because no radical left winger could now get the requisite number of nominations to run for the leadership. Corbyn only scraped in because a few MPs agreed to help include him in the ballot to 'broaden the debate' or something. Now they know someone like that would get in, they won't be doing that again.

I think ( I don't know for an absolute fact ) that rule changes were made at conference so that the leader of Tha Labour Party is automatically nominated negating the nomination process.

 

[smat]

I think ( I don't know for an absolute fact ) that rule changes were made at conference so that the leader of Tha Labour Party is automatically nominated negating the nomination process.

Can anyone corroborate this? I must know.

 

[Aber gas]

 

[Aber gas]

Sorry smat, it's not a link but I have trouble doing those.

 

[smat]

Huh, can't find any evidence of him having succeeded (if he was planning on it in the first place).

Tbh I suspect that, even if he could run again, he wouldn't.

 

[Pliny Harris]

The next election could be bloody mental. A Labour Party practically torn in two by the left-right struggle. A Tory Party divided on Europe. The Women's Equality Party will probably win at this rate.

Haha, isn't that woman with Robert Smith off of the Cure tattooed onto one arm and Nigel Farage the other now a prominent campaigner for the Women's Equality Party?

 

[mowgli]

Because no radical left winger could now get the requisite number of nominations to run for the leadership. Corbyn only scraped in because a few MPs agreed to help include him in the ballot to 'broaden the debate' or something. Now they know someone like that would get in, they won't be doing that again.

Now those idiots have seen their worst nightmare happen and regret it. The electorate rejected previous far left leaders like Foot,Kinnock and Miliband as a joke,being a dreamer doesn't make a good party leader. I despise the Tories but we will never get rid of them with Corbyn as a despotic leader,he's a man that voted over 500 times against his party's policies but now demands total obedience from his MP's,what a hypocrite!

 

[Cheese & Biscuits]

He doesn't demand total obedience from his MPs but he does want a fairly unified front bench.

 

[Alty]

Now those idiots have seen their worst nightmare happen and regret it. The electorate rejected previous far left leaders like Foot,Kinnock and Miliband as a joke,being a dreamer doesn't make a good party leader. I despise the Tories but we will never get rid of them with Corbyn as a despotic leader,he's a man that voted over 500 times against his party's policies but now demands total obedience from his MP's,what a hypocrite!

Kinnock and Miliband weren't really far left.

I actually think a mixture of Miliband's geeky demeanour, a poorly fought campaign and the unprecedented surge in Scottish nationalism is what did for him. His politics were broadly sound and could have got another leader in another era elected.

 

[Pliny Harris]

Foot/Kinnock/Miliband far left

Corbyn a despotic leader

 

[mowgli]

Foot/Kinnock/Miliband far left

Corbyn a despotic leader

Corbyn will accept no criticism so yes despotic, even more so than Cameron which is an embarrassment to Labour the party i have supported since the 70's and first voted for in 1978. Mind you he loves tyrants and defends their brutal regimes especially in the middle east.

 

[Pliny Harris]

I personally don't see this inability to accept criticism. Half of the PLP seem to have publicly criticised him in some capacity over the past few months, and it's not like he's exiled them in Siberia/Teesdale.

If Miliband's far left then I know some very wealthy Stalinists and I'm personally part of the intergalactic left.

Who're you saying loves tyrants there, Corbyn or Cameron? Though Corbyn needs to avoid ever sharing a platform with an Islamist nutter I wouldn't say he's close to any, while of course Cameron treads very carefully around the Saudis and so on.

 

[Pyeman]

He's a man that voted over 500 times against his party's policies but now demands total obedience from his MP's,what a hypocrite!

Dissenting from the back benches (as Corbyn did over 500 times) is a very different proposition to dissenting from the shadow cabinet (which was the reason for the reshuffle). The two aren't the same, so to call Corbyn a hypocrite is a little bizarre.

 

[SUTSS]

Dissenting from the back benches (as Corbyn did over 500 times) is a very different proposition to dissenting from the shadow cabinet (which was the reason for the reshuffle). The two aren't the same, so to call Corbyn a hypocrite is a little bizarre.

I agree to a certain extent but it does goes against the 'new politics' he promised.

 

[Pyeman]

I agree to a certain extent but it does goes against the 'new politics' he promised.

You're probably right, but ultimately if your shadow cabinet isn't singing from the same hymn sheet, you're not going to provide a very successful opposition.

There definitely needs to be as wide a debate as possible which involves the opinions of all labour MPs, regardless of their own personal opinions, but I can see why he wants a cohesive shadow cabinet. Ultimately he decided continuing as before would be more damaging than a reshuffle.

 

[mowgli]

You're probably right, but ultimately if your shadow cabinet isn't singing from the same hymn sheet, you're not going to provide a very successful opposition.

There definitely needs to be as wide a debate as possible which involves the opinions of all labour MPs, regardless of their own personal opinions, but I can see why he wants a cohesive shadow cabinet. Ultimately he decided continuing as before would be more damaging than a reshuffle.

Corbyn will not provide a successful shadow cabinet no matter who is in it,he and his policies have no credibility and this is from a Labour voter!

 

[Aber gas]

Corbyn will not provide a successful shadow cabinet no matter who is in it,he and his policies have no credibility and this is from a Labour voter!

Which of his policies do you disagree with out of interest?

 

[Pyeman]

Corbyn will not provide a successful shadow cabinet no matter who is in it,he and his policies have no credibility and this is from a Labour voter!

If that's your opinion then thats your choice, but you can't really deny that he'll have a better chance with a cohesive shadow cabinet, even if ultimately you still think he'll fail.

 

[Pliny Harris]

Corbyn's policies have complete credibility and this is from a Labour voter!

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

BBC Breaking News ‏@BBCBreaking 10m10 minutes ago
Shadow attorney general Catherine McKinnell resigns, citing concerns over Labour's direction under Jeremy Corbyn

 

[Pliny Harris]

Not McKinnell! Anyone but McKinnell!

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

The furore surrounding the reshuffle was a bit odd really. Admittedly, it did appear to be something of a prolonged and poorly executed mess, but the changes were ultimately very limited. The aftermath also suggests to me that they were quite sensible - like most of the country I can't pretend to know very much about Dugher or McFadden but the petulant way in which they took their leave, with a swipe at the party leader, did rather make me wonder why they wanted to serve in a Corbyn cabinet in the first instance. It rather seemed as though they, and the other lot who resigned in sympathy, wanted to have their cake and eat it - have the portfolio but not be bound by any of that pesky collective responsibility stuff. That's simply not possible; an opposition needs to present something of a united front in order to fulfill its role properly - how can they possibly hope to do that when members of the shadow cabinet are openly critical of the leadership? And given that they exercised such great control over the party when they ran proceedings I'm not sure the Blairites have much cause for complaint on this front (given their favoured candidate took less than 5% of the vote in the leadership contest I think they ought to count themselves lucky they still have a voice). If Labour is to stand any chance whatsoever of winning the next election then the various factions within the party really need to stop briefing against each other, the dissenters need to stop plotting to oust Corbyn, and the party as a whole needs to actually make itself look like something resembling a viable alternative to the Tories. I won't hold my breath...

 

[Alty]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35313090

Seems about right to me.

 

[General_disarray]

Whenever I watch PMQ David Cameron just comes across as a slimy c***.

Every answer has "strong economy", "inherited bad economy". I'm not an expert on economy matters, but a few people I read say our economy is quite weak, most of my friends back in the UK are struggling big time while rents are reaching ridicolous levels alongside train tickets to get to work.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Do they mostly live in and around London by any chance? I agree with the basic premise though. A growing economy does not necessarily equate to increased prosperity for most people.

 

[General_disarray]

They do; some in manual skilled jobs and left school at 16, others with university qualifications although a couple of them have left to Dubai, Singapore etc, maybe just for the adventure instead of long term while young. One friend who has returned and has a very good job in the city is trying to leave long term though due to high costs in London.

A few work in our home city (Medway) but most of them can only get jobs in London.

£700 now for a rent of a 2 bedroom flat in Rochester, before bills and council tax.

My sister and her husband left the country 3 months ago, one a teacher the other working some job in London to Australia due to not being able to afford to buy a house in England as well as ridicolous work loads for my sister at school.

My brother has also left to the United States, although his reasons are completely different and not really money related due to him having a decent career as an officer in the Royal Navy.

My sister who is a nurse is already going through the process of immigrating to either Canada or Australia with her fiance due to the NHS being destroyed, being overworked and pay stagnating meaning she'll only ever be working to pay rent with no security with regards to the landlords.

I myself, have no intention of moving back to the UK ever, especially now my family have left. There isn't really any incentive.

We apparently come from one of the "prosperous" part of the UK!!

 

[Pliny Harris]

Ah well, what does it matter teachers and nurses fleeing our country when we can incentivise multi-millionaires to stay by protecting them from scary ol' HMRC? They're our real backbone.

 

[Cheese & Biscuits]

Gawd bless you Jezza.

 

[The Paranoid Pineapple]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35313090

Seems about right to me.

Yeah, nothing too controversial there. I think the economy was a real fuck up, tbh. It didn't seem as though they quite knew how they wanted to position themselves. The way I saw it they wanted to be seen as fiscally responsible (hence their rejection of an anti-austerity message) but were pretty terrible at actually defending their own record in office. It would have been quite easy to refute some of the more disingenuous opposition charges - the bullshit household budget analogies, the notion that Labour was behaving recklessly and gambling with the nation's future - but they let the Tories control the narrative and propagate the myth that Labour's economic mismanagement nearly brought the country to its knees. I'm not actually sure they knew how much culpability to accept for the financial crisis and that sort of indecision characterised the whole campaign. Given that it was always going to be a defining theme of the election, having a confused, incoherent message on the economy was very dangerous. Their pitch, which essentially amounted to a slightly nicer form of austerity than the Tories were offering, was hardly compelling, especially given that rival parties (the Nationalists, the Greens) were standing on an anti-austerity platform. That, together with the failure to convince the electorate of their competency, probably helped seal their fate.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Argentina’s outgoing ambassador in London, Alicia Castro, says Jeremy Corbyn wants a deal which would allow her country and Britain to govern over the islands together.