the Migrant Crisis

[Aber gas]

Shshh red , we're only taking them from the Middle East . Better class of refugee don't you know .

 

[Aber gas]

In fact I take everything back . Cameron's got this , nothing to see here . Thank Fuck for Cameron . Such a humanitarian , I thought I might cry when he gave his speech .

 

[Alty]

Germany might be a little less altruistic than you think:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34172729

 

[Aber gas]

Sneaky Germans !

 

[nousername]

Germany might be a little less altruistic than you think:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34172729

Syria had a relatively sizeable and well educated middle-class prior to the war, would be a nice boon for any country (at least in the long-term) to have them flee to your nation bringing with them their skills and connections.

 

[allouso]

Speaking of Lebanon, this is interesting: Denmark publishes anti-migration ads in Lebanese papers

Wha?

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Germany might be a little less altruistic than you think:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34172729

This solution to our dependency ratio problems doesn't seem sustainable to say the least, not unless we want to slowly ethnically cleanse the continent of ourselves anyway.

 

[liu]

Can anybody explain to me, except for the refugees themselves, who will benefit from the acceptance of refugees?

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

[...] You think that father risked his child's life just to get benefits in another country? [...]

As more of the story emerges, it seems like that's exactly what happened in the case of the drowned Syrian child from the iconic picture. Him and his family had been living in Turkey for about three years, but wanted to move into Europe for socialized healthcare reasons after their application for asylum in Canada had failed. The father also now plans to return to Syria to bury his two sons and wife in their home town. Credit to the Guardian for actually reporting the truth of the matter, because it doesn't suit the current political narrative one bit.

 

[smat]

As more of the story emerges, it seems like that's exactly what happened in the case of the drowned Syrian child from the iconic picture. Him and his family had been living in Turkey for about three years, but wanted to move into Europe for socialized healthcare reasons after their application for asylum in Canada had failed. The father also now plans to return to Syria to bury his two sons and wife in their home town. Credit to the Guardian for actually reporting the truth of the matter, because it doesn't suit the current political narrative one bit.

Where did they live in Turkey? I can't find the info. Was it in Suruc?

 

[Alty]

This solution to our dependency ratio problems doesn't seem sustainable to say the least, not unless we want to slowly ethnically cleanse the continent of ourselves anyway.

You're right. I'm not so sure about the ethnic cleansing stuff because (theoretically at least) people integrate. If the vast majority of immigrants and their descendants end up speaking English, adjusting to our customs, learning how to queue and moan about the weather, then there needn't necessarily be any threat to the British culture or way of life.

The problem is that using immigrants to ensure there are enough workers to pay for pensioners who are living longer is not a long term solution. It just delays the problem and makes it even more difficult to solve in future. Immigrants get old too.

 

[SUTSS]

The system is built on the need for constant growth which has to break at some point. No one seems particularly keen on working on an alternative.

 

[lordofthepies]

I'm not sure how accepting fighting-age male refugees en masse from Syria will be conducive to this civil war being won by the right side, unless it's the maniacs we're planning on letting in. I think the bleeding-heart types need to shake this fantasy 'niceness' will somehow magically yield positive results.

Which is the right side in the Syrian Civil War - Assad or ISIL?

 

[mnb089mnb]

Which is the right side in the Syrian Civil War - Assad or ISIL?

It's like a title race between Man City and Chelsea.

 

[pontoonlew]

Can anybody explain to me, except for the refugees themselves, who will benefit from the acceptance of refugees?

If you're worried that you're not going to benefit from a victim of civil war I'd suggest you're living a pretty sad existence.

 

[Red]

If you're worried that you're not going to benefit from a victim of civil war I'd suggest you're living a pretty sad existence.

Yeah, isn't the fact that the refugees benefit enough?
I think us becoming ethnically cleansed is going overboard.

 

[Red]

As more of the story emerges, it seems like that's exactly what happened in the case of the drowned Syrian child from the iconic picture. Him and his family had been living in Turkey for about three years, but wanted to move into Europe for socialized healthcare reasons after their application for asylum in Canada had failed. The father also now plans to return to Syria to bury his two sons and wife in their home town. Credit to the Guardian for actually reporting the truth of the matter, because it doesn't suit the current political narrative one bit.

Well I can't fault anyone who tries to make a better life for themselves and their families if they're prepared to work.

 

[HertsWolf]

Can anybody explain to me, except for the refugees themselves, who will benefit from the acceptance of refugees?

There is a lot that has been written on this. You can choose between the tabloid newspapers (no benefits, they are all greedy, feckless benefit scroungers) or the academic research. Curiously, the latter shows a somewhat different picture.

What is key though, is that the impact of refugees and migrants on the destination country depends on individual situations and a wide range of factors. Also, some 'positives' may be considered 'negatives' by some.

General positives... (adapted from what Embrace have published, and some of the reasons are closely related to each other)
An increased population creates demand for products and services, so creating jobs.
Economic growth can be sustained or stimulated
The shortfall of national pensions contributions can be closed, because the majority of migrants will be young
Related to this, services to an ageing population can be maintained
Immigrants tend to strengthen trade links and improve both imports and exports
Cultural enrichment (many see this as a negative)
Settled populations are always economically productive

There are negatives, of course, but we have these repeated to us, mantra-like, by most of the newspapers and our caring politicians., so probably don't need repeating.

Evidence for this, to satisfy those who read something in a tabloid newspaper and don't believe rational argument?
Study in Northern Ireland : "Overall, ... migrant workers in Northern Ireland have made a significant positive contribution to the Northern Ireland economy"
UK Government Migration Advisory Committee "Analysis of Impacts of Migration"

As is often the case, a healthy disregard for the media (left, right and centre) and politicians (left, right and Scottish) and a more inquisitive approach to answering real world problems, pays dividends.

 

[silkyman]

So, bring them here, show them compassion, and then as soon as they were able to contribute, you give them a perfect reason to hate England, by throwing them back.

 

[spireite]

So, bring them here, show them compassion, and then as soon as they were able to contribute, you give them a perfect reason to hate England, by throwing them back.

No way, really? That's ridiculous

 

[HertsWolf]

Although one shouldn't ever need a reason to be compassionate towards those in need, it seems sometimes that you have to counter the instincts of the media who often portray refugees as losers and scroungers and a drain on their hosts.
The following were or are refugees.
I guess the countries that gave them asylum or a permanent home are likely to feel they have benefitted from their presence there. It's not a definitive list but it does give a sense of the variety of people who have been given asylum or a home country.

Chinua Achebe, Madeleine Albright, Isabel Allende, Namaá Alward, Hannah Arendt, Erich Auerbach, Bela Bartók, Dorothy Benson, Max Born, Joseph Brodsky, Luis Buñuel Portoles, Montague Burton, Robert Capa, Constantin Carathéodory, Theresa Hak Kyung Cha, Marc Chagall, Frédéric Chopin, Joseph Conrad, Nichiren Daishonin, Marlene Dietrich, Assia Djebar, Carl Djerassi, John Dollond, Anita Donaldson, Emmanuel Dongala, Ariel Dorfman, Albert Einstein, Nawal El Saadawi, Philip Emeagwali, Peter Carl Faberge, Robert Fano, Ugo Fano, Nuruddin Farah, Milos Forman, Lucian Freud, Sigmund Freud, Gao Xingjian, Andy Garcia, Gilberto Gil, Nadine Gordimer, Lew Grade, Alexander Grothendieck, Victor Gruen, Emil Gumbel, Ennio Hallek, Paul Hamlyn, Victor Hugo, Sir Alec Issigonis, Marcel Janco, Wyclef Jean, Walter Kohn , Sir Hans Krebs, Milan Kundera, Miriam Makeba, Michael Marks, Bob Marley, Daniel Marot, Karl Marx, Thabo Mbeki, Jonas Mekas, Freddie Mercury, Lord Moser, Mika, Makau Mutua, Vladimir Nabokov, Friedrich Nietzsche, Kwame Nkrumah, Rudolf Nureyev, Aristotle Onassis, Rita Ora, Camille Pissarro, Karl Popper, Lucie Porges, Paul Peter Porges, Otto Preminger, Andrew Sachs, Edward Said, Arnold Schoenberg, Claude-Michel Schonberg, George Seremba, Sir George Solti, Jerry Springer, Charles Proteus Steinmetz, Oscar Straus, Robert Stolz, Laris Strunke, Richard Tauber, Rashmi Thakrar, Mehmed Uzun, Sieng van Tran, Maria Agusta von Trapp, George Weidenfeld, Billy Wilder.

Most refugees contribute at least as much to society as we all do; some contribute much more.

 

[Red]

So if a kid comes over one month from his 18th birthday he gets one month?

 

[blade1889]

So if a kid comes over one month from his 18th birthday he gets one month?

so we're basically giving them a holiday? We're giving illegal immigrants a free holiday? When we have people in this country who can barely afford to go to centre parks, I despair. I really do. Bet we pay for them to live in a ****ing 5* hotel as well like the Ritz. Disgusting.

 

[Red]

so we're basically giving them a holiday? We're giving illegal immigrants a free holiday? When we have people in this country who can barely afford to go to centre parks, I despair. I really do. Bet we pay for them to live in a ****ing 5* hotel as well like the Ritz. Disgusting.

They'll be taking our women too

 

[Aber gas]

Ethnic cleansing id put that alongside cultural swamping , racial Armageddon and dilution of the White race .( rivers of blood anybody ? ) . Provocative and unhelpful language which fires up those who are already racist and frightens people into believing right wing nonsense .
- the debate has moved on a bit , apologies my work wifi is crap .

 

[Red]

Ethnic cleansing id put that alongside cultural swamping , racial Armageddon and dilution of the White race .( rivers of blood anybody ? ) . Provocative and unhelpful language which fires up those who are already racist and frightens people into believing right wing nonsense .
- the debate has moved on a bit , apologies my work wifi is crap .

The likes of the BNP have been banging on for many years predicting that we'll be ethnically cleansed and being a minority in our own country. It never happens though.

 

[HertsWolf]

so we're basically giving them a holiday? We're giving illegal immigrants a free holiday? When we have people in this country who can barely afford to go to centre parks, I despair. I really do. Bet we pay for them to live in a ****ing 5* hotel as well like the Ritz. Disgusting.

Why are they "illegal immigrants"? Do you understand the concept of living in a camp or ruined city which is being shelled by artillery or bombed? Or perhaps where roving gangs execute people for various random reasons?

Are you really comparing people who can "barely afford to go to centre parks" with refugees from war zones? Really? Are you hearing yourself?

Are you living your signature? (I have wondered if you are being ironic, but if you are, it doesn't really come across like that tbh)

 

[Womble98]

Why are they "illegal immigrants"? Do you understand the concept of living in a camp or ruined city which is being shelled by artillery or bombed? Or perhaps where roving gangs execute people for various random reasons?

Are you really comparing people who can "barely afford to go to centre parks" with refugees from war zones? Really? Are you hearing yourself?

Are you living your signature?

I'm pretty sure it was a joke.

 

[blade1889]

Why are they "illegal immigrants"? Do you understand the concept of living in a camp or ruined city which is being shelled by artillery or bombed? Or perhaps where roving gangs execute people for various random reasons?

Are you really comparing people who can "barely afford to go to centre parks" with refugees from war zones? Really? Are you hearing yourself?

Are you living your signature? (I have wondered if you are being ironic, but if you are, it doesn't really come across like that tbh)

Oh dear Herts haha. You're meant to be the king of sarcasm on here

And I think you're the only one who it didn't come across for

 

[HertsWolf]

I'm pretty sure it was a joke.

Yeh, I wondered that even as I wrote my response...but there's so many people writing this kind of stuff now it can be hard to tell.