UFC thread

Christian Slater

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I found it a bit hypocritical of Punk to jump in to a UFC PPV match after complaining about part-timers coming in to wrestling and taking spots. Similar to Bish, I found it hard to watch. The result wasn't in doubt but the performance was embarrassing. Indeed, everything about this endeavour for Punk has been cringe-worthy, not least the safety-net "inspirational" narrative of the "journey".
 
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Captain Scumbag

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In some respects what he did was worse, since guys like the Rock and Brock Lesnar were returning to a business (a branch of the entertainment industry, not a genuinely competitive sport) they'd already succeeded and proven their worth in. Punk entered MMA and fought on the main card of a major UFC event as a complete novice.
 

Christian Slater

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Exactly.

I think he'll fight a few more matches in other promotions and realise it's not to be. I could see him returning to wrestling, albeit not WWE, within the next few years.
 
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Martino Knockavelli

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Genuinely competitive sport IS a branch of the entertainment industry. Especially combat sports.
 
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Captain Scumbag

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Agreed, but I think there's still a useful distinction to be drawn, and one that has relevance in a discussion about CM Punk's perceived arrogance and/or hypocrisy.

I have no time for "wrestling is fake" reductionism, but no doubt the worked nature of pro-wrestling makes it easier for inexperienced, out of practice or simply untalented people to put on a decent showing and/or be part of a decent match. From a technical and athletic standpoint, Brock Lesnar is actually a worse pro-wrestler than he was 13-14 years ago, but it doesn't matter because they can book him to look unbeatable. A guy like Stephen Amell can wrestle a tag match on Summerslam and not make an abject arse of himself because he's in there with three experienced pro-wrestlers who are doing their best to make him look good.

There just aren't the same creative luxuries in MMA. The creative process can make you look like hot shit or whatever during the build, but a respectable showing in a MMA fight (at UFC main card level) really depends on having some talent in MMA. A guy coming back to pro-wrestling after a 5-year lay off and expecting to be in the main event is perhaps being a bit arrogant or entitled, but what Punk just did, debuting at that level despite being a complete amateur, was on another level of hubris.
 

Jimbob Joylove

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Not much to add on Punk really, was hard to watch. Totally out of his depth.

The Werdum Browne fight and the chain of events both during and post fight was all sorts of weird. Not to the same level of course, but the scrabbling around of wanting to clarify rules or lack thereof reminded me of the first few UFC events and the cluster fuck they were.

Stipe v Overeem was a total slugfest...
 
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Martino Knockavelli

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Captain Scumbag

Obv there is a distinction. I'm not being totally obtuse. But what I mean is: this is a sport where Bob Sapp and Akebono have put 50k people in an arena. Where Kimbo Slice, Sean Gannon and James Toney (and probably someone even worse I can't remember right now) have been wheeled out cos it'll flog a few more PPVs. And I don't really have a problem with that. That is their "worth". Prize fighting is showbiz, a carnival spectacle on steroids (usually literally...). Anyone insisting on Corinthian purity and opportunity being tied directly to athletic ability etc (especially in the context of an undercard side show) would be better advised finding another way to spend their time, I fear.

(hobby horse of mine)
 
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Captain Scumbag

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I'd never accuse you of being obtuse, squire, but you do seem oddly insistent on missing my intended point. I'm not ragging on UFC. I'm not making a purist's case for how an MMA promotion should be booked. I understand perfectly why UFC utilised Punk as they did, and I have no problem with it either. I couldn't care less about "Corinthian purity". For me the main draw of MMA is the gaudy spectacle of a fight; in that sense I see it as no different from pro-wrestling.

I was ragging on Punk, and mainly because no other pro-wrestler in the last decade has complained as loudly and as bitterly about 'outsiders' coming into WWE (especially around WM time) and getting the top spots, big pay days, etc. He was wrong and naive to moan about that for the same reasons that people are now wrong and naive to moan about the preferential treatment he's been given in UFC, but the hypocrisy is still there. The "entertainment, not a competitive sport" remark should be considered in that context. It wasn't an attempt to make some kind of essentialist category distinction. It was merely an attempt to justify my opinion that debuting in MMA as a novice is several degrees more arrogant than doing the same in pro-wrestling, or indeed coming back to pro-wrestling after a lay off.

Anyway, this is tedious. Do you think they'll give him a second fight if the UFC 203 buy rate is good?
 
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Martino Knockavelli

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Fair ennuff. Crossed wires/me venting apropos of nothing. Though let the record show that I am nothing if not tedious. :ds:

I would imagine he has a supporting spot on a TV card in his future, if anything. Not many people pay to see the bearded lady twice, and all that.
 

G.B

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Well, that's the end of Ronda I suppose. Absolutely embarrassed by Nunes. Garbrandt was superb, never seen anyone do that to Cruz. Fight and performance of the night imo. Dillashaw's performance was dominant as well.
 

Jimbob Joylove

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Glad Dillashaw won, and at a canter as well. Lineker makes weight only half the time and for me it was clear he lost to Dodson last time out.

Yeah that was great from Marbrandt, did not expect him to beat Cruz at his own game, not going charging in and instead picked Cruz apart. To go 5 rounds and clearly win at least 3 of them was excellent.

Can't imagine Rousey wanting to come back from that, she was so totally dominant for so long, but Nunes gets better with every fight and clearly no-one else is near her in the division right now.
 

G.B

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Yeah, I don't see how she can come back from being stopped in the first minute in her last two fights, especially after the year long break. Still don't understand why she's been trying to trade punches these last two fights. Perhaps she and her team took Holm lightly but Nunes striking power is no secret, she ripped Ronda's coach apart in the post fight presser.

A Garbrandt/Dillashaw title fight should be excellent if that's the route they go. Could understand if Cruz gets his rematch though.
 

Gilly?

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Rousey is an idiot, after seeing the video of her striking mits there was no way she should be even attempting it against someone who's a known hitter like Nunes. She missed every punch and her coach clearly didn't know much when it came to pads either. If she stuck to the ground game then chances are she'd have subbed Nunes.
 
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Captain Scumbag

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Easy to be wise after the fact, but I don't understand why they made this her comeback fight. Given her lengthy lay-off and well-publicised problems after the Holm fight, wouldn't it have been better to ease her back in against a much lesser opponent? You know? Someone who isn't super-confident and the best striker in the division? Someone less able to brutally punish a sloppy start?

There is still money to be made with her. Not as much as 18-24 months ago – her drawing power will be diminished by the losses – but she remains one of only 3-4 fighters in MMA whose fame transcends the sport. Despite everything, the only bigger draw on the current UFC roster is Conor. In this sense, talk of her being done may be premature.

There are more UFC fights in her future if she wants them. Important question is whether she wants them. Can't imagine the money matters that much to her anymore, so it'll probably come down to whether she's content going out with such a wimper. Also worth bearing in mind that some of her non-fighting career options (e.g. her film career) depend on the perception of her as this larger than life female badass, which may be hard to sustain if she's inactive.

P.S. Loved Garbrandt vs. Cruz (despite Garbrandt totally ruining my accumulator).
 
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Gilly?

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Unreal submission, quite possibly one of the best ones I've seen.

Ovince St Preux has some of my favourite submissions with his Von Flue.
 

Renegade

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Supersonic Rose Namajunas.
 
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G.B

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One of the best cards ever that. 3 new champs and a load of stunning finishes. Glad Bisping lost after spending a year dodging fights.
 

spireite_uk

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N'Gannou hype train derailed by Miocic. Francis was totally gassed after the 1st round and just didn't know what to do once taken down. Made for a pretty boring spectacle, but it was perfect execution against a big unit like that
 

Stagat

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Happy that Stipe won. Seems a proper humble dude (and fire fighter ffs!) in interviews I've heard him do. Well, the Rogan podcast anyway.

Skills over ego though. Can't begrudge him owt.
 

Fompous Part

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Nurmagomedov vs. Ferguson off again! Tony hurt this time (LCL tear). Apparently not an April Fool's joke. That fight is never going to happen, is it?

Max Holloway, featherweight champ and much braver man than me, has agreed to fight Khabib on 6 days' notice. Lightweight title on the line. Still worth tuning in for, I reckon.
 

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Fucking Ferguson bailing out. Bottled it IMO. Don't see any way Holloway beats Khabib
 

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I was hoping it was an April Fools but it seems legit. 4th time now that it has been cancelled, they are destined never to fight.

Holloway has huge heart in taking the fight on 6 days notice against such a formidable opponent. Will be surprised if it’s anything other than an absolute mauling. Khabib’s a beast.
 
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Fompous Part

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Fucking Ferguson bailing out. Bottled it IMO. Don't see any way Holloway beats Khabib
It sounds suspect to an almost comical degree (a man who routinely kicks metal posts in training needing surgery after randomly tripping in a TV studio!), but I think we have to assume it's legitimate.

Since most people (including the fighters themselves) viewed it as an eliminator fight to see who gets the massive pay day fighting McGregor later this year, I don't see why Tony would chicken out. He's possibly lost a seven-figure sum of money here.

FWIW I don't give Max much chance either. Fighting on 6 days' notice, coming off an ankle injury, largely untested against a world class grappler (not many of those at featherweight) and Khabib in no mood to fuck around. None of this sounds very promising, does it?

Still, it would be hilarious if at the end of this 2-year lightweight title saga we just skip Tony and Khabib and have a McGregor vs. Holloway rematch instead.
 

Fompous Part

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Theory 1: He's figured that he won't have to fight Khabib if he's banned from UFC or in the clink.

Theory 2: He anticipates Khabib beating Holloway and is already working on hyping the forthcoming Conor vs. Khabib fight for the title.

Theory 3: Cocaine is a hell of a drug.
 
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Renegade

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I reckon it was a publicity stunt gone wrong. Yes, they have a legitimate feud with Khabib's team because of previous altercations and the Lobov stuff earlier in the week, but I doubt he intended to actually injure the people in the bus. If they had this skirmish and no one was injured, it would have been a slap on the wrist and great promotional material for McGregor vs Khabib, which seemed inevitable before yesterday.

He's an absolute moron though, the power has gone to his head since the Mayweather fight. Chiesa and Borg fights off the card and several assault charges coming his way. It will be interesting to see how Dana White handles this. With any other fighter, they would be cut from the promotion and suspended for at least a year from competition. However, if he cuts McGregor he will lose potentially 100s of millions for the UFC and either a rival promotion (Bellator) or boxing will take his contract up when he serves his suspension. If he doesn't cut him, he will look like he's giving him the ultimate favourable treatment, which is already a criticism lobbied at White.
 
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G.B

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The Mayweather money isn't going to last him long with all the inevitable lawsuits coming his way, which is good news for the UFC I suppose as he's going to have to get in the cage after all the payouts. Chael made a good point that it'll also be interesting to see what charges he faces and how/if it affects his ability to enter the US in the future.
 

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