Welcome Derby County to League 1

[Marked Ox]

EFL spoken out .



https://www.efl.com/news/2022/june/derby-county-efl-statement



Think they are bit fed up with all it naturally.

That is a lot of words to say nothing much.

 

[BarrieOwl]

Our 2012 administration was a bit more complicated than that… unpaid shares. If we’d cheated I certainly didn’t enjoy the “ride” most clubs get!

The fans were mostly the ones mugged as they paid their shares and lost them all!

Port Vale deducted 10 points after second administration in nine years

Port Vale have entered administration for the second time in nine years but hopes are high that a buyer can be found

www.theguardian.com

Says unpaid tax caused it.

Not to mention your first admin in 2002.

 

[Soz]

Port Vale deducted 10 points after second administration in nine years

Port Vale have entered administration for the second time in nine years but hopes are high that a buyer can be found

www.theguardian.com

Says unpaid tax caused it.

Not to mention your first admin in 2002.

2002 admin was caused basically by mineshafts ramping up the cost of building our new stand which is still not fully completed to this day although it's as close as it has ever been.

2012 admin was caused by a decade of mismanagement in which we were slowly bleeding out as a club, no money at any point really and sinking to the some of the lowest periods in our history. The fans stopped putting money into the club as part of the "starve em out" protest which effectively forced the club into administration as they didn't have the cash flow to pay their creditors.

So i see your point, we've been in admin twice but at no point were we knowingly overspending to try and achieve on field success. Certainly not comparable to Derby et al selling their stadiums to get around fair play rules when everyone in football must have seen the money they've paid over the last few years as pure insanity.
In fact we basically ended up with a chain on ponzi scheme style investors who (when they actually paid their investment) were paying some of the debt of the previous ones.

So whilst the result was the same, creditors not being paid, we certainly didn't cheat in footballing terms.

 

[leedsvaliant]

Hold up, you can't be all pious when your club actively cheated its creditors too..... Hypocritical as fuck.

Hey I'm not saying that we haven't been in administration but we didn't go into admin at any point through cheating to try and gain an advantage on the field. In fact it was probably some of the worst periods in terms of on field activity in our club's history.

We certainly didn't overspend in order to be successful. There's a huge difference in being poorly run and going out of business vs spending way more than you can afford for competitive advantage. I have sympathy for the fans of such clubs as they are not always aware, but cheaters should be punished.

Perhaps learn a bit before throwing accusations around?

 

[T.A]

Hold up, you can't be all pious when your club actively cheated its creditors too..... Hypocritical as fuck.

What’s the running of a football club got to do with fans? Unless it’s fan owned?

 

[valefan16]

My issue personally with Derby is you can see what will happen… they’ll get saved, struggle early doors in league one then probably spunk a £1,000,000 or 2 in January and go up.

Meanwhile little Wycombe or modest Oxford doing it the right way will miss out.

Ultimately in these situations and club should be banned from paying a fee for 2-3 seasons and have a wage cap limit depending on division until everything is stable.

I also feel for example with Bury and Macclesfield who didn’t get much leeway in comparison with the EFL.

 

[BarrieOwl]

Meh.

 

[BarrieOwl]

My issue personally with Derby is you can see what will happen… they’ll get saved, struggle early doors in league one then probably spunk a £1,000,000 or 2 in January and go up.

Meanwhile little Wycombe or modest Oxford doing it the right way will miss out.

Ultimately in these situations and club should be banned from paying a fee for 2-3 seasons and have a wage cap limit depending on division until everything is stable.

I also feel for example with Bury and Macclesfield who didn’t get much leeway in comparison with the EFL.

They won't be allowed to pay any substantial fee, they will be under a wage restriction embargo too

 

[leedsvaliant]

They won't be allowed to pay any substantial fee, they will be under a wage restriction embargo too

I guarantee they will find a way around it. The EFL aren't bothered about a Macclesfield or Bury going under but they won't let it happen to Derby. They'll probably turn a blind eye to bringing some premier league player on loan. They're not going to have a shite team.

 

[BarrieOwl]

I guarantee they will find a way around it. The EFL aren't bothered about a Macclesfield or Bury going under but they won't let it happen to Derby. They'll probably turn a blind eye to bringing some premier league player on loan. They're not going to have a shite team.

They won't, we had an embargo for late payment of player wages during Covid. All our signings had to be frees, loans or nominal fees within an agreed wage structure before the EFL would sign off any transfer.

 

[PuB]

They won't, we had an embargo for late payment of player wages during Covid. All our signings had to be frees, loans or nominal fees within an agreed wage structure before the EFL would sign off any transfer.

Us too, for different reasons. Limited squad size, reduced wages to turnover ratio (55% I believe), only one year deals and couldn’t pay fees for loans or transfers (or contribute to loan wages).

Edit: not that I think they’ll struggle.

 

[leedsvaliant]

They won't, we had an embargo for late payment of player wages during Covid. All our signings had to be frees, loans or nominal fees within an agreed wage structure before the EFL would sign off any transfer.

How the heck did you manage to build a side from that starting point that finished on 85 points and nearly got promoted? If there truly was such limits on your recruitment, you'd be in league 2 now. Like I said, there will always be ways around it that will get a blind eye turning.

 

[PuB]

How the heck did you manage to build a side from that starting point that finished on 85 points and nearly got promoted? If there truly was such limits on your recruitment, you'd be in league 2 now. Like I said, there will always be ways around it that will get a blind eye turning.

The pertinent point is the 55% of turnover rule, if you’re still bringing more money in than most other clubs in the league, then you’ll do well.

We however, were not bigger than most.

 

[leedsvaliant]

The pertinent point is the 55% of turnover rule, if you’re still bringing more money in than most other clubs in the league, then you’ll do well.

We however, were not bigger than most.

As I thought...zero punishment for bigger clubs...makes sense. Smaller clubs don't stand a chance do they?

 

[Uncle Pastuzo]

The EFL statement reads like they have stopped believing anything coming out of the club that isn't confirmed by documentation.

 

[T.A]

My issue personally with Derby is you can see what will happen… they’ll get saved, struggle early doors in league one then probably spunk a £1,000,000 or 2 in January and go up.

Meanwhile little Wycombe or modest Oxford doing it the right way will miss out.

Ultimately in these situations and club should be banned from paying a fee for 2-3 seasons and have a wage cap limit depending on division until everything is stable.

I also feel for example with Bury and Macclesfield who didn’t get much leeway in comparison with the EFL.

Debbie Fucking Jevons happened with us. Had no idea how to deal with a Dale and so in the end penalised us for it.

 

[91SPP]

I'm not too fused who takes us over - we have 5 (three known, two unknown) people at the table all trying to get their foot in the door. None of them have really done themselves any favours in my eyes - Ashley could've had this tied up and sorted months ago if he wanted but hung around to save some money, despite the club being asset stripped and decimated (relegated) in the meantime.

The other fact is that we're not looking at investment, more so just a fresh start. We were turning over £30m a year prior to COVID (and when we last filed the accounts) so you would imagine that will be still round £20m a year in League One - still extremely significant before any owner investment at this level that allows us to be competitive.

My hope is that we can get season tickets on sale quickly and start marketing for next season. None of the players that are out of contract have moved on, with the majority in verbal agreements ready to sign on for next season. We will just have to wait and see.

No point getting stressed over a situation I can't control. If the club dies, it will feel like losing a family member, but as when family members pass, you have to just get on with it. My wife's family are all Manchester City fans and since her dad passed he hasn't gone to games - so that could be an option to keep me involved in football. I would imagine in that situation that my kids would go on to support them any way so it over time it would just be natural. It makes me sick thinking about it, but that's life!

 

[Marked Ox]

I'm not too fused who takes us over - we have 5 (three known, two unknown) people at the table all trying to get their foot in the door. None of them have really done themselves any favours in my eyes - Ashley could've had this tied up and sorted months ago if he wanted but hung around to save some money, despite the club being asset stripped and decimated (relegated) in the meantime.

The other fact is that we're not looking at investment, more so just a fresh start. We were turning over £30m a year prior to COVID (and when we last filed the accounts) so you would imagine that will be still round £20m a year in League One - still extremely significant before any owner investment at this level that allows us to be competitive.

My hope is that we can get season tickets on sale quickly and start marketing for next season. None of the players that are out of contract have moved on, with the majority in verbal agreements ready to sign on for next season. We will just have to wait and see.

No point getting stressed over a situation I can't control. If the club dies, it will feel like losing a family member, but as when family members pass, you have to just get on with it. My wife's family are all Manchester City fans and since her dad passed he hasn't gone to games - so that could be an option to keep me involved in football. I would imagine in that situation that my kids would go on to support them any way so it over time it would just be natural. It makes me sick thinking about it, but that's life!

The crunch point for OOC players will be when the current contract ends as it becomes real then with no money coming in. If Derby are sorted by then it isn't a problem but if it drags on then players may look to sort themselves out elsewhere.

 

[91SPP]

The crunch point for OOC players will be when the current contract ends as it becomes real then with no money coming in. If Derby are sorted by then it isn't a problem but if it drags on then players may look to sort themselves out elsewhere.

I believe they're paid up until the end of July - essentially start of the season - although I wouldn't blame them if they were already looking at their options. A few of them are going to have offers from Championship clubs anyway.

 

[Bartonyellow]

I believe they're paid up until the end of July - essentially start of the season - although I wouldn't blame them if they were already looking at their options. A few of them are going to have offers from Championship clubs anyway.

Tom Lawrence is the one surely who will look to play at a higher level.

 

[91SPP]

Tom Lawrence is the one surely who will look to play at a higher level.

Hopefully, if we only lose Lawrence from last season's squad, not withstanding Ebosele already leaving, it will have been a very good summer on that side of things.

We're fortunate that the 6 contracted players are significant, also I believe Stretton is also contracted and would be a first team option going into next season. Still, no goalkeeper signed up yet. I suspect Allsop will be retained once this is all done, although Cardiff have offered him something.

 

[Buxton Vale]

American Kirchner withdraws bid to buy Derby

Chris Kirchner withdraws his bid to buy League One side Derby County, with the club's administrators now talking to other parties.

www.bbc.co.uk

Inevitably hes withdrawn

 

[Bartonyellow]

American Kirchner withdraws bid to buy Derby

Chris Kirchner withdraws his bid to buy League One side Derby County, with the club's administrators now talking to other parties.

www.bbc.co.uk

Inevitably hes withdrawn

He was a tyre kicker it seems from day one.

 

[Super_horns]

What a waste of vital time that has been then.

Someone else could have done a deal by now .

 

[Bartonyellow]

What a waste of vital time that has been then.

Someone else could have done a deal by now .

Exactly. And all this time Ashley is sitting there grinning like a Cheshire Cat as he knows now he can get it even cheaper as they are desperate to shift it.

 

[leedsvaliant]

Why on earth was due diligence and research on this guy not done before going so far down the road? Is it the EFL's fault or the administrators? Should never have been allowed to progress if there was a genuine inkling that this guy wasn't serious and committed.

 

[kieran_vale]

What a waste of vital time that has been then.

Someone else could have done a deal by now .

Pretty embarrassing waste of time for all concerned on this. Administrators won’t care though as the fees will have been stacking up all through this.

Potentially now this chancer is out the way this could be a good thing for Derby as can now do what they should have done a long time ago and open up the bidding to others. Fingers crossed for Derby this now works out.

 

[leedsvaliant]

Exactly. And all this time Ashley is sitting there grinning like a Cheshire Cat as he knows now he can get it even cheaper as they are desperate to shift it.

Haven't the administrators fallen out with Ashley because he won't pay their fees?

 

[Bartonyellow]

Haven't the administrators fallen out with Ashley because he won't pay their fees?

It might be Hobson’s choice though. Him or they go under and the ground turns into a Tesco extra.

 

[91SPP]

I'm surprised Kirchner pulled out, despite the obvious cynicism, he paid last month's wages via MSD which means he's now lost £1.6m on top of lawyer fees and other fees paid to the administrators to become the preferred buyer. I'm assuming this entire ordeal has set him back well over £2m - in the end for nothing.

The EFL & Administrators had seen proof of funds, obviously with the crash in the stock market today (and crypto) it could be that he's just taken a massive financial hit and doesn't want compound the issue. I'm not sure. The administrators also had visibility over his bank transfer and was seemingly happy until it got flagged up. He was young, obviously, with no history of generational wealth.

Anyway, he did a lot of good work in terms of finding a resolution for the ground and agreeing a deal in principle with the creditors. People coming to the table know roughly the situation. I don't think it was all time wasted, but definitely could've been spent better.

An interesting couple of days ahead. The EFL will either have to let us sign players or kick us out the league soon enough, though. We really could do with season tickets going on sale too, but god knows what needs to happen for that to be allowed. I do know that they won't be happy with us drawing fans out of a hat and giving them 90 minutes in League One though. It would be some money spinner; get a lot of rich fans to pay big money to play upfront or in goal for Derby County in a professional league game. I guess we could run a raffle to see who manages for the game too.

Interesting week ahead.