WWE Raw Discussion Thread

[Saddlerrad]

Just watched the entire of the podcast.. worth every penny (Even though it's free). Could sit and listen to Austin/HHH all day. HHH comes over really well in it, virtually everything he says is what the current fans want.

 

[ForeverUnited]

Reigns is going over Bryan clean, then there will be no question, sadly.
Fast lane is looking decent so far, maybe they'll add Miz-Sandow and even Gold-Star.

 

[Libertine]

I don't think I'd actually want Bryan to win now. It's too late and it'd mess everything up. Reigns would be damaged (probably more so than suffering a few boos for the next few weeks) and the ME wouldn't feel right. They could consider doing the double turn between Lesnar and Reigns.

 

[Eamonn]

I think Reigns would be a great cocky heel, the double turn I'd like to see is Reigns and Rollins. Reigns already has many cocky mannerisms, he comes across as someone that isnt humble for his position and I was kind of glad that Big Show pinned him, I think that was more of an effort for him to pay his dues but that said that was Reigns first singles defeat via pinfall and I'd have liked them to have used that in the Lesnar feud. I'd love to see Reigns as the corporate heel, give him more protection while he improves against your Bryan, Cena, Rollins, Ortons, Zigglers so he is ready to be the top face when he eventually turns again.

Ortons return is going to be interesting as hes going to be super over when he returns again and will be yet another overshadowing Reigns face position.

 

[RavenBish]

Podcast was great, shows you how aware HHH really is (which Vince definitely isn't)...Right at the start when Austin mentioned the Rumble being booked badly, which didn't help Reigns - Trips had that look of 'yeah, tell me about it'.

 

[Dolph Ziggler]

This spear was ace tbf

https://pbs.twimg.com/tweet_video/B87JhGCIIAAuw3Y.mp4

It wasn't really, It was more of a diving headbutt. When Reigns does his spear he really needs to be lower, its more of a shoulder charge lately.

 

[BigDaveCUFC]

I don't know about you, but I think it's about time we heard Dave talk about 90s wrestling a little more.

nah I was a 1987-1994 fan and the rest of the 90's I never watched until years and years later

understandable though as it was the golden era.

Plus WWF back then had a counter to the usual ME bullcrap........Jessie Ventura, you could watch endless horrid Hogan crap but at least know as soon as it finished you got an awesome 3-5 minute rant from Ventura about Hogan which was always the highlight of the show.

that is what WWE needs, a good ventura rant after each piece of WWE crap creative.

 

[iesty wfc]

Reigns is going over Bryan clean, then there will be no question, sadly.
Fast lane is looking decent so far, maybe they'll add Miz-Sandow and even Gold-Star.

I think they will break Gold-Star up at Fast Lane, culminating in a match at WM. they may also do the same with Mizdow

 

[Oaf]

Argh, I've been saying for a while that one of the matches I'd love to see main event WM was Bryan vs Rollins... so it was awesome to get it on Raw last night. BUT AGAIN. AGAIN. A-FUCKING-GAIN. Something awesome is happening... and The Big Show needs to be there for it. I swear he's present for every single good thing that ever happens these days. Fuck off. Just fuck off. Always resented that from when he completely took over what was the awesome Bryan vs Authority stuff a few years ago and turned it into The Big Shows tears vs The Authority. And since then he just keeps sticking his fat fingers in every pie.

Anyway, I wonder where WM will go from here. Is this really a U-turn in progress? Will they just give in and give us Bryan in the main event again? Or are they gonna stick with it. I'm not even sure that they know, yet. Anyway, predicted WM matches from me:

Ziggler vs Bryan - The fans have indicated that this is what they want, and I can see WWE giving it to them to try to appease people.

Rollins vs Orton - I think they'll go with this, now. Rollins is the face of the authority, and Orton needs revenge when he comes back. Writes itself. And will probably be a superb match, too.

Sting vs Triple H - Duh.

Bray vs Taker - the first promo hinted at it (I fear nothing, living or dead) and the second one all but confirmed it (you turned their fear into love and admiration/I am the new face of fear, ect). I'm just happy that it seems that Taker will be there!

Reigns vs Lesnar - I'm just going to stick with this for now. I reckon that rumble crowd was particularly aggressive toward Reigns... and the shit booking didn't help. I reckon, different crowd, better booking, and we could have been sat here now with Reigns heading to the main event without it looking so controversial. I think they're just trying to turn it around now... whether or not it works remains to be seen.

That's all I'm going for so far. I'm actually steering away from Rusev vs Cena... WM isn't usually the stage for rematches from the PPV before them. I don't see them doing it twice in a row. No idea what Cena will do instead... perhaps some tag match with Hogan? Cena and Hogan vs Rusev and X? Or, dare I suggest... Cena vs Hogan?!

 

[RavenBish]

It wasn't really, It was more of a diving headbutt. When Reigns does his spear he really needs to be lower, its more of a shoulder charge lately.

That's better, pretty much the worse thing you can do is try and make it 'a move' and get low and wrap up like it's a rugby tackle - because then you end up with Edge's spear and his spear was an absolute embarrassment (even though I loved Edge). It needs to be a bit vicious and natural looking - the great thing about Goldberg's is how reckless it was like 'I'm sure he just spiked his own head there'. Reigns' spear has been really good ever since he came up to the main roster.

 

[RavenBish]

I think they will break Gold-Star up at Fast Lane, culminating in a match at WM. they may also do the same with Mizdow

Are either 'Wrestlemania matches' though? Considering there's already so much lined up. XXX had 8 matches including the pre-show and about 6 are set in stone already.

Lesnar v Reigns (v ???)
HHH v Sting
Cena v Rusev (in some capacity)
Tag Team title match
Divas match
Intercontinental Match

and then you've still got Bryan, Rollins, Orton who have to be in. Kane and Big Show who could be in. Wyatt, Ziggler, Taker? Harper Rowan. Are they going to have another Battle Royal?

I find it hard to believe they'd waste a match on Star/Gold when neither get any reaction anymore. I can see Miz/Dow though - and I hope to God Sandow wins and brings back his old gimmick as intellectual saviour of the masses.

 

[iesty wfc]

Are either 'Wrestlemania matches' though? Considering there's already so much lined up. XXX had 8 matches including the pre-show and about 6 are set in stone already.

Lesnar v Reigns (v ???)
HHH v Sting
Cena v Rusev (in some capacity)
Tag Team title match
Divas match
Intercontinental Match

and then you've still got Bryan, Rollins, Orton who have to be in. Kane and Big Show who could be in. Wyatt, Ziggler, Taker? Harper Rowan. Are they going to have another Battle Royal?

I find it hard to believe they'd waste a match on Star/Gold when neither get any reaction anymore. I can see Miz/Dow though - and I hope to God Sandow wins and brings back his old gimmick as intellectual saviour of the masses.

I don't think the tag team match will be on the main show - will be a pre show tournament with Uso's, new day, cesaro/kidd and ascencion/ lucha dragons ?

a brother v brother feud needs longer than a month to build up to though IMO so maybe it will be bypassed.

miz/sandow will be on though. it has had enough of a build now, unless they fast track it to the fast lane PPV

taker v wyatt was mooted on Raw with Brays promo so maybe add that to the list too?

 

[RavenBish]

Taker/Wyatt makes too much sense. An obvious win for Taker who can't lose twice in a row but you can still put Wyatt over by having him not 'fear' the Undertaker

 

[Saddlerrad]

I really don't want to see Taker vs Wyatt to be honest, Wyatt couldn't carry him and the promo's would be entertaining for about 1 minute, before Bray turned them repetitive and boring. I'd have some sort of 3 way stipulation tag match.

 

[mase]

The Andre The Giant Memorial Battle Royal was labelled as an 'annual' event last year, wonder if it is included or if they conveniently forget about it.

 

[Oaf]

Makes sense to add it in. Pretty much just gives everybody that they don't have plans for a chance to be involved in WM.

Still, it'd obviously be much better if they'd just bring MitB back to WM instead and get rid of the PPV...

 

[iesty wfc]

Makes sense to add it in. Pretty much just gives everybody that they don't have plans for a chance to be involved in WM.

Still, it'd obviously be much better if they'd just bring MitB back to WM instead and get rid of the PPV...

Money in the Bank is in June. imagine if Sting is in as part of a commissioner type role post wrestlemania. he bins off money in the bank to do a Battlebowl.

watched on of those recently on the network and its a great concept. wrestlers drawn at random in a 'lethal lottery' to form random tag teams to compete in a tag team qualifying tournament. the winners are then put in to a battle royal at the end and the winner gets a shot at the title

 

[RavenBish]

Amen Oaf. MITB was needed as a change of pace, a bit like TLC back in the day. Having said that, the Battle Royal was ok last year (albeit mainly because of Cesaro).

 

[Dolph Ziggler]

That's better, pretty much the worse thing you can do is try and make it 'a move' and get low and wrap up like it's a rugby tackle - because then you end up with Edge's spear and his spear was an absolute embarrassment (even though I loved Edge). It needs to be a bit vicious and natural looking - the great thing about Goldberg's is how reckless it was like 'I'm sure he just spiked his own head there'. Reigns' spear has been really good ever since he came up to the main roster.

I guess we just have different preferences for the Spear. I want to see it hit the waist and make the guy practically fold up in half on his way down. I don't want it to look like the guy is just jumping backwards after being shoulder charged.

Theres not much difference in Reigns spear to Cena's shoulder charge in his 5 moves of doom. Reigns is seen as a finisher but cena's is just another move.

 

[RavenBish]

Nah, that's absolute bollocks, it's nothing like Cena's fucking shoulder charge. Big Show's never going to 'fold in half' is he, given his girth.

 

[Dolph Ziggler]

Nah, that's absolute bollocks, it's nothing like Cena's fucking shoulder charge. Big Show's never going to 'fold in half' is he, given his girth.

We were talking about Reigns on Big show. It was basically a shoulder charge, very similar to Cena's.

You seem intent on going against the grain in all honesty.

Ziggler is one of the best in ring performers in the business these days. You say it's only down to his selling, but selling to the level he does is an art-form.

 

[This Charming Mike]

Reigns needs to improve a lot of things but I don't think his Spear is one of them. In fact, it's a pretty damn good Spear and is a move that suits him much than the likes of Show, Batista, Edge and Christian. The Superman Punch on the other hand....

 

[RavenBish]

We were talking about Reigns on Big show. It was basically a shoulder charge, very similar to Cena's.

You seem intent on going against the grain in all honesty.

Ziggler is one of the best in ring performers in the business these days. You say it's only down to his selling, but selling to the level he does is an art-form.

I rarely go against the grain when it comes to wrestling. I have the same opinion on Reigns as everyone else, just think he's got a good spear...and I like Ziggler, he has spent too much of his WWE career getting buried and he is much better than they've given him credit for but he's overrated by the IWC and 'we want Ziggler' peeps. I'll refer you to my original question - has he ever actually had a really good match?! Selling is an art-form...over-selling isn't.

 

[Dolph Ziggler]

I rarely go against the grain when it comes to wrestling. I have the same opinion on Reigns as everyone else, just think he's got a good spear...and I like Ziggler, he has spent too much of his WWE career getting buried and he is much better than they've given him credit for but he's overrated by the IWC and 'we want Ziggler' peeps. I'll refer you to my original question - has he ever actually had a really good match?! Selling is an art-form...over-selling isn't.

NOC 2010 Vs Kofi
No Way Out 2012 Vs Sheamus
Summerslam 2009 Vs Rey
Survivor Series 2011 Vs Punk
MITB 2013 Vs ADR
Summerslam 2012 Vs Y2J
RR 2011 Vs Edge
Bragging Rights 2010 Vs Daniel Bryan
TLC 2012 Vs John Cena.

Those are just a few I found on google, and looking at the list and already having a few of them on my mind, I can't argue. He deserves a real legitimate push for the WWEWHC. Why do Reigns, Ambrose, Rollins, Wyatt, Cena (LOLCENAWINS) and others deserve it more? When was John Cena's last "really good match" in the WHC picture?

 

[Oaf]

I rarely go against the grain when it comes to wrestling. I have the same opinion on Reigns as everyone else, just think he's got a good spear...and I like Ziggler, he has spent too much of his WWE career getting buried and he is much better than they've given him credit for but he's overrated by the IWC and 'we want Ziggler' peeps. I'll refer you to my original question - has he ever actually had a really good match?! Selling is an art-form...over-selling isn't.

I'm with you here. Ziggler is awesome, but not as awesome as people make out. The next gen Chris Jericho. Very, very good, but not as great as the IWC would have you believe. Always has solid enough matches and capable of a classic (fuck it, I'd actually say he's probably better at bring out classic matches than Jericho) and yes, Ziggler probably deserves more of a history with world titles... but as great as he is in the ring, he's probably in the bottom 10 in the company for his mic work. In fact, since he's been face, I've actually found his mic work to be pretty awful. People shit on Roman Reigns for his promos... I'd still say Roman beats the shit out of Ziggler in that department.

NOC 2010 Vs Kofi
No Way Out 2012 Vs Sheamus
Summerslam 2009 Vs Rey
Survivor Series 2011 Vs Punk
MITB 2013 Vs ADR
Summerslam 2012 Vs Y2J
RR 2011 Vs Edge
Bragging Rights 2010 Vs Daniel Bryan
TLC 2012 Vs John Cena.

Those are just a few I found on google, and looking at the list and already having a few of them on my mind, I can't argue. He deserves a real legitimate push for the WWEWHC. Why do Reigns, Ambrose, Rollins, Wyatt, Cena (LOLCENAWINS) and others deserve it more? When was John Cena's last "really good match" in the WHC picture?

Yeah, Ziggler has a decent amount of great matches under his belt... you've only got one match with Bryan there, but I seem to remember he had a series of matches at about 3 PPV's in a row and they stole the show every time.

But as for your last comment... "when was Cena's last really good match in the WHC picture"... The Rumble? And before that, his matches against Brock Lesnar...

 

[RavenBish]

I'm not a Cena fan but he's put on plenty of great matches you instantly think of. I've read that list of Dolph matches and the only two I can remember were Cena (admittedly a decent match) and Edge - wouldn't categorise either as great though. He's a solid wrestler as Oaf kind of eludes to by comparing him to Jericho, who will get good matches out of people - that's a skill in itself but he's not and never has been one of the top guys in the company - and as Oaf says, his promos are pretty bad, especially when he's a face. He got his chance when he cashed in after WM and was white-hot then, he just isn't good enough to sustain it. With the amount of good actual wrestlers coming through too, he'll probably head down the ranks rather than up them.

 

[Eamonn]

Bottom 10 in promos? Bollocks. Zigglers growing to be much more natural for me, comes across as unscripted to me, I think hes been given a little bit more freedom and has improved significantly in this department. Zigglers never been given the ball to run with, admittedly his outspokeness has cost him sometimes but hes one of the most over in the company, I really dont see any reason why he cant be a main eventer. Hes not going to be the top guy but certainly a semi regular main eventer and I'm quite happy with his spot as of late, think hes done very well recently, if WWE can sustain a push with him he will stay over as he already is. His matches are the ones I look forward to the most, hes my second favourite in the company behind Bryan. Give me him over Wyatt and Reigns any day.

 

[Libertine]

Ziggles is decent on the mic IMO, improved a lot. Just doesn't have a very tough sounding voice, which holds him back quite a bit. Reigns has a similar issue, he doesn't seem to be able to project his voice very well. Which is a talent seeing as he has a mic in his hand.

 

[Oaf]

I dunno, Ziggler always sounds sort of like he's panicking when he's talking. Like he gets the mic so rarely that he really wants to make the best use out of it when he's got it but kind of tries too hard and just falls apart. And he always seems to interrupt people with shit little lines and jokes that never seem to fit and seem poorly timed.

This being said, I used to love the promo bits he used to do in Zack Ryders youtube thing. So he's got it in him.

 

[T.A]

I'm with you here. Ziggler is awesome, but not as awesome as people make out. The next gen Chris Jericho. Very, very good, but not as great as the IWC would have you believe. Always has solid enough matches and capable of a classic (fuck it, I'd actually say he's probably better at bring out classic matches than Jericho) and yes, Ziggler probably deserves more of a history with world titles... but as great as he is in the ring, he's probably in the bottom 10 in the company for his mic work. In fact, since he's been face, I've actually found his mic work to be pretty awful. People shit on Roman Reigns for his promos... I'd still say Roman beats the shit out of Ziggler in that department.



Yeah, Ziggler has a decent amount of great matches under his belt... you've only got one match with Bryan there, but I seem to remember he had a series of matches at about 3 PPV's in a row and they stole the show every time.

But as for your last comment... "when was Cena's last really good match in the WHC picture"... The Rumble? And before that, his matches against Brock Lesnar...

Before RR I'd say you'd have to go back to Cena v Punk for a match where I enjoyed his involvement.