Arsenal fans start petition against Mike Dean

Bilo

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We didn't deserve points on Saturday,
Honestly, I disagree with this one. I'm confident you would have at least picked up a draw, leaning towards a win, had Costa been rightly sent off (in which case Gabriel surely wouldn't have). Even if both Costa and Gabriel would have stayed on, I reckon you would have picked up a draw.

That said, the first goal had nothing to do with any of this. That was playing a line with Koscielny being two yards behind it, marking the wrong player.

Edit: Before you ask, yes, this is me going off topic in my own thread.
 

G-Dragon

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Why should only Mike Dean take all the blame? What about the linesman? What about Mourinho and Wenger for failing to control their players?
 

Veggie Legs

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Let the individual get punished and be done with it - but if clubs are going to be fined, I think referees can be held accountable, too. The teams get their punishment via losing players to suspension - why the double whammy?
You're not comparing like with like. You're saying that referees should be fined for making mistakes, but that's not what clubs are fined for. If a referee loses control and starts pushing and swearing at the players, then presumably they would be fined/suspended.
 

HertsWolf

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Why should only Mike Dean take all the blame? What about the linesman? What about Mourinho and Wenger for failing to control their players?

I blame it on barcodes, myself.

I've noticed that there is a correlation between increasing numbers of grounds introducing barcode turnstile systems and poor refereeing decisions.

And on Jeremy Corbyn and Diane Abbott. Although I am still working on the maths for this one.
 

Bilo

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Perhaps one of the reasons England fail to produce good enough referees is because it's not an especially appealing profession. You're guaranteed to be hated, period. It just isn't worth it I don't think. Spend enough time refereeing and you're bound to have 4-5 cities you seriously can't visit without looking over your shoulder. Take Howard Webb visiting Liverpool for example, he's guaranteed to be abused and possibly assaulted. Mike Dean probably won't go to north London any time soon, either.

The referees shouldn't be "held accountable" for making mistakes, it's an absurd opinion and completely unparallelled. Maybe it's time the clubs are held responsible for how their fans treat referees though. If the viscious hatred stops, maybe the profession will seem more appealing, in turn resulting in more competition and ultimately better referees making fewer mistakes.

Starting petitions against referees won't change a thing, aside from putting more people off doing a job the whole sport is dependant on someone doing.
 

johnnytodd

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Perhaps one of the reasons England fail to produce good enough referees is because it's not an especially appealing profession. You're guaranteed to be hated, period. It just isn't worth it I don't think. Spend enough time refereeing and you're bound to have 4-5 cities you seriously can't visit without looking over your shoulder. Take Howard Webb visiting Liverpool for example, he's guaranteed to be abused and possibly assaulted. Mike Dean probably won't go to north London any time soon, either.

The referees shouldn't be "held accountable" for making mistakes, it's an absurd opinion and completely unparallelled. Maybe it's time the clubs are held responsible for how their fans treat referees though. If the viscious hatred stops, maybe the profession will seem more appealing, in turn resulting in more competition and ultimately better referees making fewer mistakes.

Starting petitions against referees won't change a thing, aside from putting more people off doing a job the whole sport is dependant on someone doing.
simple answer would be reviews upstairs, it will come in 2020 as i predicted in 2011
 

Bilo

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As opposed to who?
Not good enough in comparison to other countries, but good enough so that fans won't consider it a problem. I wouldn't argue that they're better or worse in Sweden, but it has literally never been considered a problem. I've followed the Swedish top league all my life and I couldn't name five refs.
 

JimJams

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I'm not sure that really qualifies their ability or lack thereof. I'm sure if I went to Italy then the locals could name a few Italian refs but not know any of ours. That's not a gauge of their quality.
 

mnb089mnb

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Perhaps one of the reasons England fail to produce good enough referees is because it's not an especially appealing profession. You're guaranteed to be hated, period. It just isn't worth it I don't think. Spend enough time refereeing and you're bound to have 4-5 cities you seriously can't visit without looking over your shoulder. Take Howard Webb visiting Liverpool for example, he's guaranteed to be abused and possibly assaulted. Mike Dean probably won't go to north London any time soon, either.

I don't think things are that bad, Bilo.

People shout angry stuff at games and post nonsense online but I don't think it's ever likely to spill over into physical abuse.
 

JimJams

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I bet they never eat out though!
 

Bilo

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I'm not sure that really qualifies their ability or lack thereof. I'm sure if I went to Italy then the locals could name a few Italian refs but not know any of ours. That's not a gauge of their quality.
I'm either misunderstanding you or you're completely missing the point. And now I realize why because my first sentence is stupidly formulated:

"Not good enough in comparison to other countries" = by this I meant that whether it's better or worse than other countries is irrelevant, becuase it's considered a problem in England and that's the bottom line.

I don't think things are that bad, Bilo.

People shout angry stuff at games and post nonsense online but I don't think it's ever likely to spill over into physical abuse.
Possibly not, physical abuse is like you say, quite rare.
 

Bilo

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I bet they never eat out though!
This is sort of my point. Who in their right mind would want to be a premier league referee right now? What are they even paid?

We either give them footballer's wages or we stop abusing them, imvho.
 

JimJams

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"Not good enough in comparison to other countries" = by this I meant that whether it's better or worse than other countries is irrelevant, becuase it's considered a problem in England and that's the bottom line.
Ah ok then. With ya.
 
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This is sort of my point. Who in their right mind would want to be a premier league referee right now? What are they even paid?

We either give them footballer's wages or we stop abusing them, imvho.

Considering most of them work jobs alongside refereeing, I'd assume not that much.

EDIT: I stand corrected, they get £75-80,000 per year, so less than some of the players they're in charge of get in a week. https://nationalcareersservice.direct.gov.uk/advice/planning/jobprofiles/Pages/FootballReferee.aspx
 

johnnytodd

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Not good enough in comparison to other countries, but good enough so that fans won't consider it a problem. I wouldn't argue that they're better or worse in Sweden, but it has literally never been considered a problem. I've followed the Swedish top league all my life and I couldn't name five refs.
thought you were a Liverpool fan?
 

thespus

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You're not comparing like with like. You're saying that referees should be fined for making mistakes, but that's not what clubs are fined for. If a referee loses control and starts pushing and swearing at the players, then presumably they would be fined/suspended.

I offered a poor argument. I'm more befuddled by charges for "not controlling their players" wthan I am by hypothetical charges to an official. Gabriel will rightly be suspended for his immaturity, but why should a club be punished further (in addition to a red card and suspension) when poor officiating creates a fracas? Costa should have been sent off before Gabriel's red card occurred.

Ultimately I think the FA is too soft with officials - accountability breeds performance. In contentious situations, the 4th official should be able to review video footage and consult with the official.
 

Bilo

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thought you were a Liverpool fan?
I am, but I'm also a season ticket holder at my old local club, even if I only manage to attend 4-5 games a season nowadays, since I don't live there anymore. It's not very expensive, despite being in the top division, and I want to support the club in some way or another. Never been a fan of buying shirts and scarves and stuff.
 

Mustard

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Gabriel has had his ban overturned. Looking forward to the Chelsea boo boys when Costa gets banned on top of this.
 
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So they've hung Dean out to dry. Looks like the Arsenal fans were heard, and for the good of the modern game too.

#istandwithgabriel
 

Bilo

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What? Did anyone anywhere disagree with Gabriel's red card? That makes no sense at all, I've seen FA uphold far more stupid reds than that.

Costa is definitely getting banned.
 

Mustard

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Supposedly Arsenal sent the FA some footage taken by ESPN which showed the Gabriel 'kick' in a much more favourable light.
 

thespus

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Supposedly Arsenal sent the FA some footage taken by ESPN which showed the Gabriel 'kick' in a much more favourable light.

I saw something on Reddit which (it was still hard to distinguish) showed Costa kicking at Gabriel's legs before Gabriel's backheel - which seemed to miss. I'm surprised the card was rescinded, but would it shock anyone if Costa had gone a little further than his verbal winding up? Either way, glad to have Gabriel. He's been immense (and was playing quite well before being sent off).

It's astonishing that the back heel was the only incident Dean saw properly. He must have his eyes trained to look downwards.

1693694-35872360-2560-1440.jpg



But what incentive does an official have to improve performance if h/she doesn't get any punishment apart from an online bollocking?
 

Bilo

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So what do you reckon Spus, it wasn't an honest mistake at all? He deliberately makes himself a worse ref to fuck with Arsenal, jeopardizing his own career in the long run?

Makes sense.
 

thespus

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So what do you reckon Spus, it wasn't an honest mistake at all? He deliberately makes himself a worse ref to fuck with Arsenal, jeopardizing his own career in the long run?

Makes sense.

Nowhere have I suggested anything similar. Incompetence doesn't have to have an agenda to be punishable.
 

Bilo

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Nowhere have I suggested anything similar. Incompetence doesn't have to have an agenda to be punishable.
Should we punish players for own goals as well? Strikers missing a clear cut chance?
 
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