the middle east Thread

SUTSS

Survivor Champion 2015
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
3,067
Reaction score
1,027
Points
113
Supports
Norwich City
If only because they don't have the infrastructure for it.
 

silkyman

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2015
Messages
4,099
Reaction score
1,068
Points
113
Supports
Macclesfield Town/Manchester City. It's complicated.
I don't think this is anything like the threat posed by Nazi Germany, in fairness.

No, but still has the potential to be very dangerous. Anyway, it was just a comparison of tactics rather than scale.
 

Ebeneezer Goode

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
3,657
Reaction score
1,541
Points
113
Supports
England
So we go in there and kill a load of ISIS fighters... and then what? We try to nation-build on the cheap again and fail... again?
 

BigDaveCUFC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
3,370
Reaction score
639
Points
113
Supports
Curzon Ashton....and Carlisle
i didn't mean it will be like Nazi Germany, just that if you give them 8-10 years like they did with the Nazi's they can easily warp minds of the young in the area.

and you deal with the aftermath once done, the worry about the aftermath should not be an excuse to let the current continue.

this is abit different to the Iraq War, it'll probably get the backing of most countries and even many of the muslim countries in the area.
 

SUTSS

Survivor Champion 2015
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
3,067
Reaction score
1,027
Points
113
Supports
Norwich City
So we go in there and kill a load of ISIS fighters... and then what? We try to nation-build on the cheap again and fail... again?

That's the big one. If we do go in at any time we need to have a plan for the post-war and be willing to put up the money to make it work otherwise we'll be back there in 10 years time.
 

Mustard

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
751
Reaction score
344
Points
63
Location
Berkshire/Cardiff
Supports
Arsenal
This is actually a bit of a blunder from ISIS. They had a chance to show that they can negotiate by swapping this man for Jordan's prisoners, a chance to actually gain the tiniest bit of credibility in setting up their own state. Instead they've shown once again to be exactly what people thought, idiotic savages. You can bet no country is going to bother negotiating with them now.

Many of the Jordanian population were also against being part of the coalition, I shouldn't think this will help ISIS in that regard either. They've really pissed off one of the major regional powers. They are stupid.
 

Tilbury

Active Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
789
Reaction score
214
Points
43
Location
London
Supports
Bernie
The last thing we need to do is go in a put boots on the ground. The airstrikes are having minimal impact considering we don't actually know where they are. A concerted effort is required from the regional powers who need to put the troops in themselves.
 

slaphead

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
1,703
Reaction score
929
Points
113
Location
Basingstoke
Supports
Aldershot Town
No, but still has the potential to be very dangerous. Anyway, it was just a comparison of tactics rather than scale.

I actually do think it bears comparison with Nazi Germany. The parallels are remarkable, the seizing of territory, the murder and repression of peoples who stand in their way, the beginnings of genocide. If this is allowed to continue there will be another mass slaughter, IS are just getting started at the moment, building themselves up for bigger things, just like Hitler in the 30's. Germany then took many chances with it's military build-ups, it's demands for land. It looked to see how far it could push before someone stood against them. For Austria, Czechoslovakia, and Poland read Iraq, Jordan and Libya. The only way this will stop is for everyone, Britain and the US, Iran, Jordan everyone in the area with an interest in stopping them, to put their differences aside and co-operate before they gain a proper foothold. If that means men on the ground, US and Iranian soldiers fighting shoulder to shoulder, so be it. It has to be done.

The one thing any coalition will have in their favour is resources. IS has no manufacturing means, so any weapons are bought, and they are mainly Soviet. It is time the Russia was pressurized into stopping selling arms to them. Anyone who thinks that is not the case is naïve in the extreme, it is in Russia's interest to have instability in the Middle East. The big buyers in the region, Iran, Iraq and Egypt to name but three, must put pressure on Putin to cease his backing of these terrorists. Cut off their supply and they will wither and die.

I watched an interview last week with Judith Kerr in the Holocaust memorial programs, about the world being vigilant, lest it happen again. Well, it is happening again and at the moment we are doing nothing to stop it. Air strikes are lip service. If we don't learn the lesson of history, we are doomed to repeat it.
 

Ebeneezer Goode

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
3,657
Reaction score
1,541
Points
113
Supports
England
Lest it happen again? Has no one heard of North Korea? What do you think is happening there? They don't just wipe out swathes of the population with famine, they do human experiments too in their death camps too. Genocides happen all the time and we generally take little notice. We're only interesting in the Middle East because of oil. And the military hardware ISIS has does not come from the Russians, it comes from us. It's the hardware we sold/gave to the Iraqi army that turned tail and ran, plus loads of other stuff that comes from various interested parties in the region.
 

slaphead

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
1,703
Reaction score
929
Points
113
Location
Basingstoke
Supports
Aldershot Town
Lest it happen again? Has no one heard of North Korea? What do you think is happening there? They don't just wipe out swathes of the population with famine, they do human experiments too in their death camps too. Genocides happen all the time and we generally take little notice. We're only interesting in the Middle East because of oil. And the military hardware ISIS has does not come from the Russians, it comes from us. It's the hardware we sold/gave to the Iraqi army that turned tail and ran, plus loads of other stuff that comes from various interested parties in the region.

Of course I've heard of N. Korea, but they have no expansionist ideas, they really don't have the infrastructure of money to back that. Genocides happens every day in Africa, but it doesn't threat to destabilize the world, so we let it happen.

There is more than the threat to oil in the Middle East for us to be concerned with, IS want radical Islam to rule the world, and that in turn means we aren't (or won't be) safe in this country if their ideals are allowed to be pursued. As for the hardware, look at the kit they are using. AK47's, RPGs and recently Russian ground to air missiles. That's what brought down the Jordanian F-16, you don't do that with a lucky hit from a rifle. The stuff we sold to Iraq has all but been accounted for, and as for 'various interested parties', who do you think supplies them?
 

Ebeneezer Goode

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
3,657
Reaction score
1,541
Points
113
Supports
England
What do you mean "accounted for"? We've known they took US-supplied MANPADS from the get-go.

And there are plenty of groups that want Assad gone, especially inside Turkey. RPGs and AKs are a dime a dozen in the Middle East. Like, the former literally being a household object in places.
 

slaphead

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
1,703
Reaction score
929
Points
113
Location
Basingstoke
Supports
Aldershot Town
What do you mean "accounted for"? We've known they took US-supplied MANPADS from the get-go.

And there are plenty of groups that want Assad gone, especially inside Turkey. RPGs and AKs are a dime a dozen in the Middle East. Like, the former literally being a household object in places.

By accounted for I mean UK supplied kit, what the US may or may not have mislaid I have no idea. They certainly have plenty of customers in the area. But, by and large, our people in the area are being briefed on defence against Soviet made weapons. That info came to me via an RAF navigator who has just returned from the region.
 

Blitzballer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
2,037
Reaction score
1,079
Points
113
Location
Birmingham
Supports
Aston Villa
RIP Jordanian pilot. Having watched his execution vid I feel physically sick. Absolute medieval stuff.
At least a beheading is somewhat quick, burning to death I can imagine would be excruciatingly painful
 

BigDaveCUFC

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
3,370
Reaction score
639
Points
113
Supports
Curzon Ashton....and Carlisle
There is also one other huge factor or fear in the future people need to take into consideration with regards ISIS.

what happens if one of their 'executions' down the line comes from Israel.

They won't p*ss about and moan about it in the papers............that could lead to full scale all out war in the area.

at some point you need to act, although I agree with regards N Korea, but I think that noose is already tightening on them, give afew more years and they lose any last bits of china support they have
 

Ebeneezer Goode

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
3,657
Reaction score
1,541
Points
113
Supports
England
I don't think China gives a shit. The only reason North Korea exists is because China likes having a proxy.
 

RavenBish

Antihero
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
4,530
Reaction score
1,657
Points
113
Supports
Shola Ameobi's Notts County
Watched the video, incredibly weird the way it was shot and edited, in some ways that was the most twisted part of it because it didn't seem real, I didn't feel as if I was watching a man actually being flamed to death, it was more like a scene from a certificate 15 action film.

Shouldn't they really be going after who funds them? Surely there's only a small amount of people with the resources and motives to back these sort of mass barbaric activities.
 

Ebeneezer Goode

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
3,657
Reaction score
1,541
Points
113
Supports
England
They fund themselves. They have shit loads of money from the banks they've seized and the oil they're not supposed to be able to sell (but can). Plus I don't suppose they need much funds. They can roll into anywhere they like and take what they want most likely.
 
D

Dr Mantis Toboggan

Guest
as a conventional military force i don't think they can be defeated without boots on the ground. as a regional threat they can't be defeated with force alone either, i'd say
 

RavenBish

Antihero
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
4,530
Reaction score
1,657
Points
113
Supports
Shola Ameobi's Notts County
Wonder what the trigger would be for us to go after 'em, we all just waiting around for a terrorist attack?
 

Ebeneezer Goode

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
3,657
Reaction score
1,541
Points
113
Supports
England
Don't see why they would invest the time and planning to attack the West. It doesn't further their goals, they're not Al Qaeda. If we go after them it'll probably be if and when they start going into Saudi Arabia. Gotta protect our oil buddies...
 

Arkan

Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
114
Reaction score
18
Points
18
Location
Liverpool
Supports
Everton
Just watched that Jordanian pilot being burned alive. The video I watched was very well put together and had a bit of music on in the background but you could still hear him screaming. Not nice to see.
 
F

Freakyteeth

Guest
Jordan's King Abdullah, a trained pilot, could lead revenge airstrikes on Islamic State himself, it has been revealed.

The monarch may personally take part in bombing raids on extremist strongholds on Thursday, according to reports in Arabic-language newspapers.

the king quoted the scene where Eastwood's character announces his plan for retribution.

'Any man I see out there, I'm gonna kill him,' Eastwood's William Munny says in 'Unforgiven.'

'Any son of a bitch takes a shot at me, I'm not only going to kill him, I'm going to kill his wife and all his friends and burn his damn house down.'

'He said there is going to be retribution like ISIS hasn't seen,' Hunter said. 'He's angry. 'They're starting more sorties tomorrow than they've ever had. They're starting tomorrow. And he said, "The only problem we're going to have is running out of fuel and bullets".'


25594BCA00000578-2938668-image-a-20_1423109343239.jpg





What a LAD
 

Ebeneezer Goode

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
3,657
Reaction score
1,541
Points
113
Supports
England
And that's why a Middle Eastern problem should be left to the Middle East. ISIS won't stop because we killed a few of them and helped them radicalise more people in the process, but if you go after the families of the leadership? Hmmm...
 

pontoonlew

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 18, 2015
Messages
2,249
Reaction score
650
Points
113
Supports
Grimsby
What do you mean "accounted for"? We've known they took US-supplied MANPADS from the get-go.

And there are plenty of groups that want Assad gone, especially inside Turkey. RPGs and AKs are a dime a dozen in the Middle East. Like, the former literally being a household object in places.

ISIS do not have access to MANPADS.
 

RavenBish

Antihero
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
4,530
Reaction score
1,657
Points
113
Supports
Shola Ameobi's Notts County
Aye she's great. Can see why he's the first King of Jordan to only have one wife.
 

Dave-Vale

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
1,612
Reaction score
497
Points
83
Supports
Port Vale
I don't know why anybody would want more than 1 wife. Imagine the nagging and hassle that would be?
 

SUTSS

Survivor Champion 2015
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
3,067
Reaction score
1,027
Points
113
Supports
Norwich City
Looks like we're edging closer to American boots on the ground.
 

Womble98

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
880
Reaction score
265
Points
63
Supports
AFC Wimbledon and Sporting Leyland
Looks like we're edging closer to American boots on the ground.

Yep. For those confused, Obama sent Congress a "draft war authorisation bill"

Main points

  • The White House requests authority to wage battle against ISIS and "associated forces" with no geographic limitations and a limited timeline of 3 years

  • Obama faces more resistance from Democrats than from Republicans, the latter of whom mostly reacted with "grudging acceptance"

  • Main concern of democrats is that the vague language (see point 1) will pull us into another open-ended war

Concerns
  1. Who are "associated forces"? Could be anyone.
  2. No geographic limitations- Could be anyone anywhere.
In order for a war to be successful, surely you need a definitive timeframe to achieve it in and point where you can say, our job is done.

With IS though, that probably isn't possible, hence the concerns and problems.

What I believe should happen if troops must go in, is that they shouldn't be an invasion force. It should be a highly mobile but small group of soldiers, with a lot of air support, able to strike certain locations, inflict heavy casualties on insurgents, in targeted and calculated small raids.That way we won't get bogged down. Let the Arab countries and groups i.e. Peshmerga, Syrian forces and Iraqi forces, fight IS to control territory, let us assist them by weakening IS wherever we can.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
16,422
Messages
1,189,896
Members
8,392
Latest member
feby2112
Stronger Security, Faster Connections with VPN at IPVanish.com!

SITE SPONSORS

W88 W88 trang chu KUBET Thailand
Fun88 12Bet Get top UK casino bonuses for British players in casinos not on GamStop
The best ₤1 minimum deposit casinos UK not on GamStop Find the best new no deposit casino get bonus and play legendary slots Best UK online casinos list 2022
No-Verification.Casino Casinos that accept PayPal Top online casinos
sure.bet
Need help with your academic papers? Customwritings offers high-quality professionals to write essays that deserve an A!
Top