US Police state

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Some of it has been irresponsible though to be fair. The Michael Brown case was reported on like it was it was some kind out outrageous racist execution, only for the autopsy report(s) to show that no, Brown was a fucking maniac who probably had it coming. At it's core this is much more about class than race, as these trends hold true even in police departments where half the force is black. They don't, I think, for the most part target minorities because they hate minorities, they target them because they have quotas to fill and they assume they won't have the means to fight back.

 

[Abertawe]

Some of it has been irresponsible though to be fair. The Michael Brown case was reported on like it was it was some kind out outrageous racist execution, only for the autopsy report(s) to show that no, Brown was a fucking maniac who probably had it coming. At it's core this is much more about class than race, as these trends hold true even in police departments where half the force is black. They don't, I think, for the most part target minorities because they hate minorities, they target them because they have quotas to fill and they assume they won't have the means to fight back.

Where do you buy your enlightenment from?

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

It's the place next to the bewilderment shop. You maybe pass it on your way there.

 

[Abertawe]

Quality.

 

[thespus]

The Michael Brown case was reported in an irresponsible manner. I'm not completely comfortable with the situation, but I don't think it was particularly outrageous, and there have been a dozen less justified shootings since. Not to mention the atrocious death of Eric Garner. Unfortunately, the irresponsible lefty media's blowhard over Mike Brown left the Fox News crowd and PooLew feeling justified in just delivering racism coated thick with distraction phrases like "media propaganda", "look at this white guy that died", and "reverse racism".

 

[pontoonlew]

The Michael Brown case was reported in an irresponsible manner. I'm not completely comfortable with the situation, but I don't think it was particularly outrageous, and there have been a dozen less justified shootings since. Not to mention the atrocious death of Eric Garner. Unfortunately, the irresponsible lefty media's blowhard over Mike Brown left the Fox News crowd and PooLew feeling justified in just delivering racism coated thick with distraction phrases like "media propaganda", "look at this white guy that died", and "reverse racism".

Jumping on this 'racist' bandwagon because somebody else has said it, cretin.

I've said countless times, I believe this boils down to poverty rather than race. There are plenty of criminology experts who believe the same and plenty of studies that suggest the same. There are cases of racism but on the grand scheme of things it makes up for tiny proportion.

But no doubt you'll read that, let it blow straight over your head and prefer to call me a racist on a forum because it's the popular thing to do from behind your keyboard.

 

[mnb089mnb]

I never made any ridiculous points about women's football, I said that Italia 90 didn't even compare with women's football. It's not a bloody ground breaking statement is it.

You said that the addition of women's football to FIFA was 'cringe-worthy', even though it's actually a very astute business decision from the makers of the game. And that domestic women's football isn't well supported (though the teams being added are international). You made a bit of a fool of yourself in the thread, which is why I assumed you'd stopped posting in there.

 

[thespus]

Jumping on this 'racist' bandwagon because somebody else has said it, cretin.

I've said countless times, I believe this boils down to poverty rather than race. There are plenty of criminology experts who believe the same and plenty of studies that suggest the same. There are cases of racism but on the grand scheme of things it makes up for tiny proportion.

But no doubt you'll read that, let it blow straight over your head and prefer to call me a racist on a forum because it's the popular thing to do from behind your keyboard.

I've typed up my first-hand thoughts correlating racism in America with poverty and sub-standard education opportunities in the confederate flag thread. I'm suggesting you're racist because you try and diminish a serious problem—from which you are incredibly far removed—by focusing on the how white folks are affected by this or claiming that the police have nothing to do with why black people are in poverty (despite empirical evidence refuting this). You ignore what's inconvenient for you and then go on to attack the character of those who offer these opinions (keyboard warriors the lot of them!). No racism problem with policing in America? What of the e-mails passed around the Ferguson PD? The exponentially higher arrest rates for minor drug offenses between black men and white men despite similar usage? (I actually live here; they're not making that last one up.) How about the percentage of white criminals murdered compared to the percentage of their black peers? Eric Garner?

In reality, I'm not suggesting you're racist. You're just racist - and a sexist fool to boot. Don't like being labeled as such? Maybe accept it's not up to you to determine if you're a racist or not and try to find what it is that leads to the majority of this thread's participants thinking so.

We missed your response to MNB and I calling your bollocks out in the WWC thread, by the way. I'll just assume you've not seen the posts yet.

 

[pontoonlew]

I've typed up my first-hand thoughts correlating racism in America with poverty and sub-standard education opportunities in the confederate flag thread. I'm suggesting you're racist because you try and diminish a serious problem—from which you are incredibly far removed—by focusing on the how white folks are affected by this or claiming that the police have nothing to do with why black people are in poverty (despite empirical evidence refuting this). You ignore what's inconvenient for you and then go on to attack the character of those who offer these opinions (keyboard warriors the lot of them!). No racism problem with policing in America? What of the e-mails passed around the Ferguson PD? The exponentially higher arrest rates for minor drug offenses between black men and white men despite similar usage? (I actually live here; they're not making that last one up.) How about the percentage of white criminals murdered compared to the percentage of their black peers? Eric Garner?

In reality, I'm not suggesting you're racist. You're just racist - and a sexist fool to boot. Don't like being labeled as such? Maybe accept it's not up to you to determine if you're a racist or not and try to find what it is that leads to the majority of this thread's participants thinking so.

We missed your response to MNB and I calling your bollocks out in the WWC thread, by the way. I'll just assume you've not seen the posts yet.

No, what I'm saying is the size of this problem isn't on this huge scale that's reported. How many times do I have to say that yet you STILL continue to claim I've said there's no problem?! My point remains that the sensational headlines since Browns death has helped to put officers in danger and protesters on the streets. But you continue to twist that idea into something which you insist on being racist. There are problems with the drug offences statistic of course there are, there are also variables in those statistics, everything in this whole debate can be read two ways yet you deem me racist. In the sense of police 'murdering' black people I simply do not buy that this goes on in the scale its reported. When you take into account that from the 12-13% of black people in the states, half of murders are committed by a black person, it's no surprise such a high proportion are involved in shootings with officers. Is that stating of a fact racist too? In the case of the white guy getting shot dead, I was pointing out that there's uproar on here and the media when videos like this come out showing a black person getting killed. You can say that's because there are errors made, there were errors made in the latest video too.

None of this is helped either by Americas quite frankly ludicrous gun laws.

Yet from all that, you twist what I say and portray me as a racist. Not knowing anything about my views outside of this thread. Now a sexist too for not believing women's football is as good or entertaining as the men's game. You're quite welcome to those views but you're so far off the truth its bordering on embarrassing.

 

[Red]

No, what I'm saying is the size of this problem isn't on this huge scale that's reported. How many times do I have to say that yet you STILL continue to claim I've said there's no problem?! My point remains that the sensational headlines since Browns death has helped to put officers in danger and protesters on the streets. But you continue to twist that idea into something which you insist on being racist. There are problems with the drug offences statistic of course there are, there are also variables in those statistics, everything in this whole debate can be read two ways yet you deem me racist. In the sense of police 'murdering' black people I simply do not buy that this goes on in the scale its reported. When you take into account that from the 12-13% of black people in the states, half of murders are committed by a black person, it's no surprise such a high proportion are involved in shootings with officers. Is that stating of a fact racist too? In the case of the white guy getting shot dead, I was pointing out that there's uproar on here and the media when videos like this come out showing a black person getting killed. You can say that's because there are errors made, there were errors made in the latest video too.

None of this is helped either by Americas quite frankly ludicrous gun laws.

Yet from all that, you twist what I say and portray me as a racist. Not knowing anything about my views outside of this thread. Now a sexist too for not believing women's football is as good or entertaining as the men's game. You're quite welcome to those views but you're so far off the truth its bordering on embarrassing.

I'd much rather watch England's women than the men.

 

[Tilbury]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...for-injuries-and-charge-him-with-assault.html
Seems like a rational response.

 

[HertsWolf]

The Michael Brown case was reported on like it was it was some kind out outrageous racist execution, only for the autopsy report(s) to show that no, Brown was a fucking maniac who probably had it coming.

I don't recall this. Can you provide some links to where this was said or implied? Thanks in advance.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

I don't recall this. Can you provide some links to where this was said or implied? Thanks in advance.

This is a good breakdown, from a staunchly liberal outlet:

 

[thespus]

Now a sexist too for not believing women's football is as good or entertaining as the men's game. You're quite welcome to those views but you're so far off the truth its bordering on embarrassing.

I wouldn't have called you sexist if that was the only opinion you provided. I called you sexist because you called the inclusion of FIFA women's football in the FIFA video game "cringeworthy". Perhaps your constant revising of history (and ignoring key points made by those you disagree with) is why you don't grasp your ignorance, PooLew.

I'll read your "facts" when you bother addressing the issue that black men are arrested at over twice the rate of white men for petty crimes such as cannabis possession. You've dodged that crucial statistic dozens of times - with the grace of Andy Gray at a lesbian wedding.

 

[Red]

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...for-injuries-and-charge-him-with-assault.html
Seems like a rational response.

Despicable behaviour from sub human scum.

 

[slaphead]

And so it continues.....http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-33613783

 

[SaddlerJonny]

Bad attitude by both of them, could of been so easily avoided though. Escalating an disagreement when you are meant to be keeping the peace is only going to provoke trouble.

Don't think you can say it is racially motivated from that video alone though, both approached with a bad attitude and got in a shouting match. Whether it was racially motivated in pulling her over or what happens after is another discussion though.

 

[Tilbury]

I don't even know where to start with this one. Shocking. 14 times she asked why she was being arrested without response, and I have no idea having watched the video.

 

[chairboyexile]

DON'T SHOOT

 

[pontoonlew]

I don't really understand why she was even arrested in the first place. I see countless videos just like this on Facebook of police in America just randomly arresting people during traffic 'offences'. As said above, they both acted like idiots.

Quite how the police are being blamed for her death though is beyond me. Okay she wound up in a cell for reasons not particularly clear. But why is this case of a person killing themselves in police custody (something which happens fairly often) getting such a large level of attention compared to others? I mean the family are accusing the police of murdering her, that's a pretty staggering accusation.

 

[TheMinsterman]

I don't really understand why she was even arrested in the first place. I see countless videos just like this on Facebook of police in America just randomly arresting people during traffic 'offences'. As said above, they both acted like idiots.

Quite how the police are being blamed for her death though is beyond me. Okay she wound up in a cell for reasons not particularly clear. But why is this case of a person killing themselves in police custody (something which happens fairly often) getting such a large level of attention compared to others? I mean the family are accusing the police of murdering her, that's a pretty staggering accusation.

I suspect they're being blamed mainly for an indirect influence in her death, if she was mentally fragile enough to take her own life the stress of a bogus arrest and being locked up in a cell will have hardly been beneficial. They didn't murder her of course, but unfortunately this is an extreme response that highlights the utter stupidity of heavy handed policing.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

The Michael Brown case was reported in an irresponsible manner. I'm not completely comfortable with the situation, but I don't think it was particularly outrageous, and there have been a dozen less justified shootings since. Not to mention the atrocious death of Eric Garner. Unfortunately, the irresponsible lefty media's blowhard over Mike Brown left the Fox News crowd and PooLew feeling justified in just delivering racism coated thick with distraction phrases like "media propaganda", "look at this white guy that died", and "reverse racism".

Let's not upset white people by talking about racism?

The Mike Brown shooting was an outrage. That there have been dozens of less justified shootings since shouldn't really take away from that.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

The Mike Brown shooting was an outrage.

It really wasn't.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

 

[thespus]

Let's not upset white people by talking about racism?

The Mike Brown shooting was an outrage. That there have been dozens of less justified shootings since shouldn't really take away from that.

I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at with your first statement. I have persistently advocated real talks about racism, both in the police force and the systemic cycle which exists in the USA.

As an isolated incident, the Mike Brown incident is murky. Is there a racism problem in the Ferguson and STL PD? 100%, yes. Do I believe Mike Brown's death was the result of Darren Ferguson's racism? I'm not entirely convinced - the initial media reports about what happened led to a widespread public opinion about what did and didn't occur, hence my sleight at the irresponsible media (on both sides mind - portraying him as "thug" is eqaully as irresponsible and racist in itself). Dorian Johnson's testimony should not be blindly accepted. It is tough to discount the proven inconsistencies and potential bias.

There is a ubiquitous racial animosity between police and black Americans. One does not have to believe Mike Brown's death was a racially motivated murder in order to see this.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

A cop shot an unarmed man. That's an outrage, or should be, were it no so routine.

It's pretty fucked up if a cop gunning down an unarmed man can somehow be justified away. America is racist, the police is racist; it barely matters whether Darren Wilson was more or less racist than society as a whole - he's a white guy with a gun in a land which has taught white guys to fear black kids.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

I reckon if a man tried grabbing a policeman's gun in the UK and he got shot, there wouldn't be much of an outrage. I also reckon that had Brown been white, it wouldn't have got much media coverage at all and wouldn't have been irresponsibly (and ultimately counter-productively) shoe-horned into a civil rights debate in which it didn't belong. In the aftermath all that has happened is that those people who maintain that there's no problem now feel somewhat vindicated, which obviously isn't helpful.

 

[thespus]

A cop shot an unarmed man. That's an outrage, or should be, were it no so routine.

It's pretty fucked up if a cop gunning down an unarmed man can somehow be justified away. America is racist, the police is racist; it barely matters whether Darren Wilson was more or less racist than society as a whole - he's a white guy with a gun in a land which has taught white guys to fear black kids.

Shove off with the "America is racist". Every country has racists. America is just the one liberal Brits like to focus on because they extrapolate sensationalist headlines and ignore/aren't exposed to the mundane day to day. I live here. It is a significantly more progressive country than it receives credit for on these forums.

All of that is rhetoric and not focusing on the isolated event which is part of the reason we (humanity) can't have an actual discussion on race. Attempts at genuine objectivity are rebuffed by personal emotions - I'm not talking about PooLew's "objectivity", by the way. Mike Brown was unarmed, but saying "it's pretty fucked up if a cop gunning down an unarmed man can somehow be justified" is dogmatism - "I have made my mind up on the matter and if you don't agree with me you're part of the fucked up problem". Again - I've voiced my displeasure at the racism in America and among the police force quite often. I wrote a good deal about the systemic circle of racism in the Confederate Flag discussion.

Darren Wilson claims Brown went for his weapon and the autopsies performed in both the local and federal investigation have supported the close quarters struggle which was not reported in the initial bandwagon of outrage - permanently forming opinions for some. It was poor policing and it was handled poorly by Wilson, the police, the violent sections of the protests, both sides of the media, and everyone who formed opinions on sensationalist social media posts. Unlike the Eric Garner, toy gun, Charleston, etc. cases, there is clear evidence that the officer was being accosted. The subsequent racist actions by police officers have made it easier for a revisionist bandwagon about this particular incident. It was a tragedy and Mike Brown should not be dead, but forgive me for thinking this isn't the lucid racially-motivated murder some portray it as. So, yes, it is outrageous that he is dead, but I thought the relativity was implied. To me it is the most interesting case because it is murky, and it isn't a clear cut example of Darren Wilson the individual being racist, but the systemic circle in which America is currently trapped.

 

[pontoonlew]

A cop shot an unarmed man. That's an outrage, or should be, were it no so routine.

It's pretty fucked up if a cop gunning down an unarmed man can somehow be justified away. America is racist, the police is racist; it barely matters whether Darren Wilson was more or less racist than society as a whole - he's a white guy with a gun in a land which has taught white guys to fear black kids.

The country which elected a black president is racist, I can see your logic there.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

You reckon 80's Britain wasn't sexist?