US Police state

[pontoonlew]

To be fair, help arrived in just under 4 mins. The chances are it made very little difference, the people of this board and the media are just clutching at straws to get people prosecuted for doing their bloody jobs.

I saw one article while reading back on the case slating police for not taking into account a member of the public saying 'it might be a fake'. I don't even know where to start when explaining just what a ridiculous statement that is. What on earth do people expect the police to do with that information?!

 

[mnb089mnb]

To be fair, help arrived in just under 4 mins. The chances are it made very little difference, the people of this board and the media are just clutching at straws to get people prosecuted for doing their bloody jobs.

Fair point.

Comments on TFF led to the false imprisonment three Ohio police officers in 2012.

 

[pontoonlew]

You'll very rarely find a video like that because in America, black or white you'll be given no time to even aim at a copper. If you do you're probably looking at a dead or injured cop (that happens a lot, the media don't like to tell you)

Have a look at the homeless guy who grabs the officers gun and is shot. Blatant attempt to grab his gun, shot dead. What did anybody expect? Though when reporting it, ITV somewhat staggeringly didn't mention that fact,

 

[pontoonlew]

Fair point.

Comments on TFF led to the false imprisonment three Ohio police officers in 2012.

This is the brilliant thing about this thread, the twisting of things said to distract from debate. There's a select few who are brilliant in this art, RavenBish being the pick of the bunch.

This was a pretty poor effort though.

 

[pontoonlew]

No.1= Racism from Police
No. 2 = racism from judiciary.
No. 3= Racism from police
No 4. Racism from police...


So on and so on.

And none of those articles discuss variables in the slightest.

They must all be true and the American police force are all racists...

 

[mnb089mnb]

This is the brilliant thing about this thread, the twisting of things said to distract from debate. There's a select few who are brilliant in this art, RavenBish being the pick of the bunch.

This was a pretty poor effort though.

You said that the people of this board were trying to get people prosecuted. I just followed the idea through and made a joke about it. Certainly wasn't twisting anything you said. And you're a fine one to talk about debate considering how you made some ridiculous statements about Women's Football and failed to back them up.

I also find it hard to see how anyone could look at the US and not think "Whoah, they've got some issues with racism they need to deal with."

 

[pontoonlew]

I'm not saying they don't have issues with racism. Saying that, they did elect a black president...

I certainly don't believe a few hand picked misreported stories and a media circus is reflective of those issues in the States either. That's my biggest issue here. There are holes and exadurations in almost every report since the death of Michael Brown, which I've no doubt has made things massively worse and caused the protests to escalate way into full blown riots.

You'll never find me defend the indefensible, which I've shown enough times in this thread. You have me down as somebody who is all about defending a policeman murdering somebody because that's what you'd like to believe. Read my posts, I'm offering different reasons for what the media have initially told you before. Thankfully some people are intelligent enough not to buy all the shite they print.

However if you tell enough people in poverty with little education something, chances are you'll get enough people to believe you to riot about it. The media shamelessly exploit that.

 

[pontoonlew]

You said that the people of this board were trying to get people prosecuted. I just followed the idea through and made a joke about it. Certainly wasn't twisting anything you said. And you're a fine one to talk about debate considering how you made some ridiculous statements about Women's Football and failed to back them up.

I also find it hard to see how anyone could look at the US and not think "Whoah, they've got some issues with racism they need to deal with."

I never made any ridiculous points about women's football, I said that Italia 90 didn't even compare with women's football. It's not a bloody ground breaking statement is it.

 

[smat]

exadurations

DISQUALIFIED

 

[G.B]

Well debate it then, there's no good calling me a moron then not saying anything about the cases in hand?!

No thanks, I'd rather knock one out with a sheet of sandpaper than waste time debating your twisted world view. It's not as if you ever take anything someone says on board anyway. I'm good just popping in to remind you what a moron you are tbh

 

[RavenBish]

Forgot about this thread. Some top new material from Lew.

 

[G.B]

Forgot about this thread. Some top new material from Lew.

This claim gave me the biggest chuckle...

You'll never find me defend the indefensible

Apart from the numerous times you've defended the indefensible ofc.

 

[pontoonlew]

This claim gave me the biggest chuckle...



Apart from the numerous times you've defended the indefensible ofc.

Show me, show me where I've defended something which resulted in prosecution.

 

[pontoonlew]

No thanks, I'd rather knock one out with a sheet of sandpaper than waste time debating your twisted world view. It's not as if you ever take anything someone says on board anyway. I'm good just popping in to remind you what a moron you are tbh

Twisted world view that I don't believe it fair that the media hand pick & twist stories to incite riots? Christ what a twisted bastard I must be! I've just shown you every lie the media printed in the Tamir Rice story and not one of you can argue against it.

Instead you just club together, call me a moron and hope it'll pass without you actually having to say anything.

 

[Jockney]

Twisted world view that I don't believe it fair that the media hand pick & twist stories to incite riots? Christ what a twisted bastard I must be! I've just shown you every lie the media printed in the Tamir Rice story and not one of you can argue against it.

Instead you just club together, call me a moron and hope it'll pass without you actually having to say anything.

'every lie printed about the tamir rice story' there was a video, we all saw it. after michael a wood jr's media testimony about baltimore cops purposely profiling blacks and in particular black youth, you don't think their complete disregard for procedure in that incident was an example of institutional racism? again, if it is a white kid from bel air, or even a white working class neighbourhood like south boston, do you think they go in with such eagerness to shoot?

you have the slightest hint of critical perspective, but you are a racist, so you purposefully ignore contextual information to make a right-wing, approaching fascist, argument that is patently untrue.

and yes, you are a racist. and no, i don't care if your favourite grimsby player is black.

 

[pontoonlew]

I'm a racist?!

That's quite a bloody bold claim there. In fact it's an absolutely fucking ridiculous one that I'm massively offended by. I cannot even begin to explain what a complete fucking moron you are for saying that. You've not read a single one of my posts properly, you've read it how you want them to sound in your own head. Read what I'm saying, this is about the media, not race. How many times does that need to be drummed into you?

Calling somebody a racist because they can see that 2-3 examples of police fucking up in a country the size of the USA is not a true reflection of the country at all. Absolutely absurd. In fact I think you're a total fucking idiot for claiming that.

Its become pretty apparent in this thread that people are not prepared to listen to any argument that isn't their own view on things. I'm guilty of the same so it's a completely pointless thread. The fact any of you think you're taking on points is daft, the thread just goes silent for a few weeks until you find another hyped up media story to get your teeths into. I think I'll leave you sad few to agree amongst yourselves.

 

[pontoonlew]

As for Tamir Rice, you saw a video in which Rice grabbed his gun. That results in the shooting of ANYBODY in the States.

The media tells you they should've known it was a fake. Bullshit. The media tells you they didn't give him CPR, though classically failing to tell you that was against procedure. Just as they classically didn't mention the fact a 'victim' tried to take an officers gun when the homeless guy was shot.

There's things that could've been done differently in the case of this white guy. He should've been cuffed and the officer in front should not have had his back to him. Especially given the fact your useless colleague not only screams but pulls out her fucking taser instead. Not media hype over the fact he had a BB gun. All small failings not mentioned in this story, why is that?

See? My point is NOTHING to do with race. I've even agreed there's a race problem in America. But on the level that the media tell you? Bollocks is it.

 

[Jockney]

I'm a racist?!

That's quite a bloody bold claim there. In fact it's an absolutely fucking ridiculous one that I'm massively offended by. I cannot even begin to explain what a complete fucking moron you are for saying that. You've not read a single one of my posts properly, you've read it how you want them to sound in your own head. Read what I'm saying, this is about the media, not race. How many times does that need to be drummed into you?

Calling somebody a racist because they can see that 2-3 examples of police fucking up in a country the size of the USA is not a true reflection of the country at all. Absolutely absurd. In fact I think you're a total fucking idiot for claiming that.

Its become pretty apparent in this thread that people are not prepared to listen to any argument that isn't their own view on things. I'm guilty of the same so it's a completely pointless thread. The fact any of you think you're taking on points is daft, the thread just goes silent for a few weeks until you find another hyped up media story to get your teeths into. I think I'll leave you sad few to agree amongst yourselves.

no, you are a racist because despite overwhelming evidence of endemic institutional racism in us law enforcement and the overriding structural inequality prevalent in cities and towns with a sizeable african-american population, you are still making excuses and justifications for an oppressive component of the us criminal justice system. that you cannot even recognise that it needs major reform if not complete overhaul makes you part of the insidious and cross section of racist, authoritarian tossbags who will invariably jump to the defence of an explicably well-protected class of professionals who serve the state, rather than the people's interests, before a black victim, even when the evidence overwhelmingly supports the latter.

 

[Jockney]

As for Tamir Rice, you saw a video in which Rice grabbed his gun. That results in the shooting of ANYBODY in the States.

The media tells you they should've known it was a fake. Bullshit. The media tells you they didn't give him CPR, though classically failing to tell you that was against procedure. Just as they classically didn't mention the fact a 'victim' tried to take an officers gun when the homeless guy was shot.

There's things that could've been done differently in the case of this white guy. He should've been cuffed and the officer in front should not have had his back to him. Especially given the fact your useless colleague not only screams but pulls out her fucking taser instead. Not media hype over the fact he had a BB gun. All small failings not mentioned in this story, why is that?

See? My point is NOTHING to do with race. I've even agreed there's a race problem in America. But on the level that the media tell you? Bollocks is it.

racism is much more than a conscious value judgment against another person, it encompasses a range of social, psychological and cultural factors that come together to form a broad, underlying and usually unthinking analysis of a person or situation based on unwittingly normalised prejudice. to use a pertinent example: report of incident in black neighbourhood, police tend to target more black neighbourhoods than white because of racist drug policies, thus excessive violence is proportionate to the imagined high level of threat. so if tamir rice white: officers calmer, deal with situation following proper procedures, tamir rice still alive. unfortunately, tamir rice black: racist connotations, victim of adultification (just a future adult criminal, even if those thoughts aren't conscious), tamier rice dead.

 

[pontoonlew]

As I've mentioned before. Not that there isn't truth in that (that's not what I'm arguing, for the 1000 time) but I believe it mainly lies in poverty. People in poverty are generally more likely to come into contact with police and there's lots of stuff to suggest they aren't always treated fairly.

There is then in turn a higher proportion of black people in poverty. That isn't the fault of the police, it more likely lies down to why a lot of black people wound up in America in the first place.

If believing it may not all to do with race makes me a racist then brilliant. I've already agreed with pretty much what your said throughout the post, you've instead ignored it in your pursuit of some sort of tirade against what I'm saying. Not once have you even discussed the medias role in all of this, the only thing I'm saying is massively wrong. I've just posted more about Rice, this latest video and the media, you've again chosen to ignore it to speak about something I've never once argued against.

 

[pontoonlew]

racism is much more than a conscious value judgment against another person, it encompasses a range of social, psychological and cultural factors that come together to form a broad, underlying and usually unthinking analysis of a person or situation based on unwittingly normalised prejudice. to use a pertinent example: report of incident in black neighbourhood, police tend to target more black neighbourhoods than white because of racist drug policies, thus excessive violence is proportionate to the imagined high level of threat. so if tamir rice white: officers calmer, deal with situation following proper procedures, tamir rice still alive. unfortunately, tamir rice black: racist connotations, victim of adultification (just a future adult criminal, even if those thoughts aren't conscious), tamier rice dead.

You don't know that about Rice. You don't know if he was white they would've done anything differently. Plenty of white people are shot by police.

Here's a fact;

White Tamir Rice reaches for gun, shot dead.

Black Tamir Rice reaches for gun, shot dead.

Police rush in, that's there own stupid risk and risking their own lives. Just as in this latest video, not cuffing the guy put themselves in danger. Both errors.

 

[RavenBish]

You're so very stupid. Police brutality and institutional racism are separate subjects that overlap frequently, of course white people get killed too by trigger happy moronic cops. It doesn't mean there's not police actions that are racially motivated. You're not really proving anything by merely saying white people get shot too.

 

[Jockney]

As I've mentioned before. Not that there isn't truth in that (that's not what I'm arguing, for the 1000 time) but I believe it mainly lies in poverty. People in poverty are generally more likely to come into contact with police and there's lots of stuff to suggest they aren't always treated fairly.

again this isn't totally inaccurate but it is only true in a broad sense. the major problem i have with your arguments in this topic is that you either have a massive hole in your knowledge of the state of race politics in the us or you're willingly ignoring them. either way, it makes arguing with you either infuriating or completely meaningless, though often both. i don't know why the issue makes you so uncomfortable.

There is then in turn a higher proportion of black people in poverty. That isn't the fault of the police, it more likely lies down to why a lot of black people wound up in America in the first place.

this is completely uncritical. what are the police? they are an arm of the state. who enforces the state's racist laws? the police. so how aren't they part of the problem?

If believing it may not all to do with race makes me a racist then brilliant. I've already agreed with pretty much what your said throughout the post, you've instead ignored it in your pursuit of some sort of tirade against what I'm saying. Not once have you even discussed the medias role in all of this, the only thing I'm saying is massively wrong. I've just posted more about Rice, this latest video and the media, you've again chosen to ignore it to speak about something I've never once argued against.

the 'media' is such a vague term. which media are you talking about? the mainstream networks? CNN, FOX, MSNBC? alternative press and grassroots bloggers? the twittersphere? who?

 

[pontoonlew]

You're so very stupid. Police brutality and institutional racism are separate subjects that overlap frequently, of course white people get killed too by trigger happy moronic cops. It doesn't mean there's not police actions that are racially motivated. You're not really proving anything by merely saying white people get shot too.

Yeah it doesn't mean that at all. Of course there are racially motivated shootings. But on the grand scale of things, these incidents are a minority so small. Yet it's a front page story every time, whether it's racist or not.

So calling me stupid then claiming it happens 'frequently' is rather brilliant.

 

[pontoonlew]

this is completely uncritical. what are the police? they are an arm of the state. who enforces the state's racist laws? the police. so how aren't they part of the problem?



the 'media' is such a vague term. which media are you talking about? the mainstream networks? CNN, FOX, MSNBC? alternative press and grassroots bloggers? the twittersphere? who?

The police aren't responsible for why such a large proportion of black people are in poverty. What exactly do you class as a 'racist law' by the way?! In the sense of the way I'm a racist too?

I'm talking about the main news outlets. Who misreport these incidents to sensationalise stories. I understand that's what the media do, but when it's causing riots and police to be killed as an almost direct result, I take issue with it.

 

[RavenBish]

Yeah it doesn't mean that at all. Of course there are racially motivated shootings. But on the grand scale of things, these incidents are a minority so small. Yet it's a front page story every time, whether it's racist or not.

So calling me stupid then claiming it happens 'frequently' is rather brilliant.

Intrigued what you'd consider frequently to be with regards to racially motivated shootings and beatings. The idea that its 'front page' every time is just fucking laughable too. Seriously. If you're concluding that racial injustice in America is covered extensively by mainstream media then you're a bigger thicko than I thought.

 

[slaphead]

In the current climate, who on earth thought this was a good idea?

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2015/07...t-faux-gun-cell-phone-case/?intcmp=latestnews

 

[Womble98]

You keep banging on about two or three examples. Give it up mate. Read the stats I posted.

 

[mnb089mnb]

Jockney has the patience of a saint. Bless him.

 

[Jockney]

The police aren't responsible for why such a large proportion of black people are in poverty. What exactly do you class as a 'racist law' by the way?! In the sense of the way I'm a racist too?

The police aren't solely responsible, they are part of a greater structural problem.

racist laws:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_the_War_on_Drugs

I'm talking about the main news outlets. Who misreport these incidents to sensationalise stories. I understand that's what the media do, but when it's causing riots and police to be killed as an almost direct result, I take issue with it.

Like what, like who? The biggest civil unrest has come as a result of some of these mainstream news sources finally giving these stories the prominence and scrutiny they deserve. I daresay some outlets are actually finally doing their bit as a public service. blame police brutality, blame unquestioning acceptance of inequality and oppression. if these cops died as a direct result of their department's negligence and brutality towards black communities, then the larger blame lies directly at the door of law enforcement.