US Police state

[pontoonlew]

You reckon 80's Britain wasn't sexist?

I think things were certainly starting to turn. If the majority of your country are racist/sexist then I see little chance of black women coming into power. If America were a 'racist country' you'd surely not have a black president. There's a racist element in America, of course there is. But saying a country is 'racist' when the majority of that country voted for a black president is way off the mark.

Look at Russia if you want to give clear evidence of an inherently racist country.

 

[Jockney]

I think things were certainly starting to turn. If the majority of your country are racist/sexist then I see little chance of black women coming into power. If America were a 'racist country' you'd surely not have a black president. There's a racist element in America, of course there is. But saying a country is 'racist' when the majority of that country voted for a black president is way off the mark.

Look at Russia if you want to give clear evidence of an inherently racist country.

are you thick?

 

[Techno Natch]

I think things were certainly starting to turn. If the majority of your country are racist/sexist then I see little chance of black women coming into power. If America were a 'racist country' you'd surely not have a black president. There's a racist element in America, of course there is. But saying a country is 'racist' when the majority of that country voted for a black president is way off the mark.

Look at Russia if you want to give clear evidence of an inherently racist country.

Just over 50% of eligible people actually voted in the last American election so that argument doesn't really stand up.

America has a problem with guns. Police are
to quick to use them, possibly through fear and criminals can also get hold of them far to easily.

I also believe there is a problem with racism in police forces but this isn't just unique to America.

I can't help that all this mudslinging is actually stoping sensible debate about this situation and how best to tackle the problem. It really worries me when I see how quick police there pull there gun and seemingly use it with the motive to kill rather than disarm. Although I appreciate that shooting someone in a smaller area such as the knee to disarm is probably fantasy stuff i
do on computer games so feel free to correct me.

 

[pontoonlew]

Just over 50% of eligible people actually voted in the last American election so that argument doesn't really stand up.

America has a problem with guns. Police are
to quick to use them, possibly through fear and criminals can also get hold of them far to easily.

I also believe there is a problem with racism in police forces but this isn't just unique to America.

I can't help that all this mudslinging is actually stoping sensible debate about this situation and how best to tackle the problem. It really worries me when I see how quick police there pull there gun and seemingly use it with the motive to kill rather than disarm. Although I appreciate that shooting someone in a smaller area such as the knee to disarm is probably fantasy stuff i
do on computer games so feel free to correct me.

With the gun laws the way they are, it's incredibly difficult to judge if your lives in danger. I know that's their job but gut human instinct comes into it. I saw a video where a guy had a mp5 in his hand walking down a road in the U.S. and the police couldn't confiscate it because he was allowed it?! How ridiculous is that?

I've said before at the very start of this thread on TFF, unless you're in their position you'll never know how difficult that decision is. Keeping yourself alive whilst giving a split second decision on whether that guy is a threat. People are quick to judge and jump down the throats of police for these quick reactions but police die on a regular basis too, it's a fine balance that is incredibly difficult to get right.

Oh and as for the kneecap thing, I don't know what the police do but in the military ive never once been taught to shoot to disable.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

The country which elected a black president is racist, I can see your logic there.

ahahaha, i always like saying 'but america elected obama there's no racism'. i've always said it ironically, didn't know there were actually real people who thought that way

I saw a video where a guy had a mp5 in his hand walking down a road in the U.S. and the police couldn't confiscate it because he was allowed it?! How ridiculous is that?

also relevant

 

[Dave-Vale]

What does everybody make of this Sandra Bland mug shot? Is she alive or not?? It really wouldn't surprise me if she's dead in it.

 

[Stevencc]

I googled the picture and nothing about it indicates that she is deceased.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

She looks alive to me. She looks like she's holding her a mouth a certain way and flaring her nostrils. Just more crazy conspiracy theories. All these people talking about how she didn't act like she was going to commit suicide, as if there is such a thing. People don't wander around acting all suicidey right before they do it. A guy near me, an ostensibly happily married man, one morning got up to get the paper and then just hanged himself in the door frame for everyone to see. Another got in his car in the garage and set himself alight. You have no idea what's going through someone's head. The idea that she killed herself is far more plausible to me than the idea that a police department conspired to fake her suicide. The media is loving this and has been characteristically irresponsible in hyping up what is actually a pretty far-fetched conspiracy theory.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

She looks alive to me. She looks like she's holding her a mouth a certain way and flaring her nostrils. Just more crazy conspiracy theories. All these people talking about how she didn't act like she was going to commit suicide, as if there is such a thing. People don't wander around acting all suicidey right before they do it. A guy near me, an ostensibly happily married man, one morning got up to get the paper and then just hanged himself in the door frame for everyone to see. Another got in his car in the garage and set himself alight. You have no idea what's going through someone's head. The idea that she killed herself is far more plausible to me than the idea that a police department conspired to fake her suicide. The media is loving this and has been characteristically irresponsible in hyping up what is actually a pretty far-fetched conspiracy theory.

Yeah but that's cos your a credulous bellend who doesn't believe empirical facts like police kill people and lie about it.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

When have I ever denied anything of the sort? Maybe next time you feel this wave of tween SJW emotion wash over you you should take a moment to calm yourself, lest you embarrass yourself further. It's one thing to kill a detainee and then lie about how it happened (which usually means claiming they reached for your gun), but it's quite another to get half the department involved in an elaborate fake suicide fabrication. It may well turn out to be the case that it happened that way, but it takes a special kid of moron to assume that explanation is true based on the non-existent evidence supporting it.

 

[Red]

She looks alive to me. She looks like she's holding her a mouth a certain way and flaring her nostrils. Just more crazy conspiracy theories. All these people talking about how she didn't act like she was going to commit suicide, as if there is such a thing. People don't wander around acting all suicidey right before they do it. A guy near me, an ostensibly happily married man, one morning got up to get the paper and then just hanged himself in the door frame for everyone to see. Another got in his car in the garage and set himself alight. You have no idea what's going through someone's head. The idea that she killed herself is far more plausible to me than the idea that a police department conspired to fake her suicide. The media is loving this and has been characteristically irresponsible in hyping up what is actually a pretty far-fetched conspiracy theory.

Fuckin' hell, I would like to live in your neighbourhood. It sounds like it's a suicide hot spot.
Of course people walk about in a state that indicates they're prone to suicide. It's why people are sectioned sometimes. I get your point that many don't though.

 

[pontoonlew]

ahahaha, i always like saying 'but america elected obama there's no racism'. i've always said it ironically, didn't know there were actually real people who thought that way



also relevant

Yet again somebody totally misquoting me in this thread. Point me to where I said there was no racism please?

 

[Gladders]

Yeah but that's cos your a credulous bellend.

You need to stop looking in the mirror when posting on here.

 

[Dr Mantis Toboggan]

there u go ian_wrexham

 

[pontoonlew]

What does everybody make of this Sandra Bland mug shot? Is she alive or not?? It really wouldn't surprise me if she's dead in it.

Sorry I missed this? Is this claim a real thing?

People are so desperate to say the police murdered her (despite there so far being NO evidence to support this) they are claiming that the police killed her, carried her over to the photograph room (all this time nobody bats a fucking eyelid) tart her up in a bit of make up and then cart her back to her cell to 'find' her dead.

The reason as to why she was arrested boils down to an idiot copper inciting a volatile woman. What happened after that happens a lot, an inmate kills themself in prison. It's not nice and it can sometimes be prevented, but why is THIS case being reported right at the top of the news? What makes this case different to the thousands of other prison suicides?

Dead in her mugshot, Jesus Christ...

 

[mnb089mnb]

Why would they kill her? They all voted for Obama!

 

[pontoonlew]

Why would they kill her? They all voted for Obama!

Again, smart comment and all but try show me where I've said there's no racism?

My point was people saying America is a 'racist country' are over stating it somewhat. I'd love to get answers on what makes this latest case worthy of front page news and one of the most ridiculous accusations against police I've ever heard. There's clutching at straws and there's propping up a dead woman for a mugshot....

 

[Dave-Vale]

People are pointing out things like her shoulders don't look right, as though she is lying on the floor as opposed to standing back against a wall. Her hair looks as though it is falling backwards as opposed to falling downwards. The colour behind her is very similar to the floor of the cell where she was found. I also saw somebody mention that she's wearing an orange jumpsuit and not in her own clothes. The person had trawled through mugshots from this prison and it appears that inmates always had their mug shot taken before being changed into orange. Very strange.

I'm not saying I believe it but it would not shock me. Especially in Texas.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

yeah and burning jet fuel can't melt steel at that temperature something something...

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

yeah and burning jet fuel can't melt steel at that temperature something something...

Well documented that police kill people and lie about it. Mark Duggan, Sean Rigg, Jean Charles de Menezes, Azelle Rodney, Ian Tomlinson etc etc etc. It's not a conspiracy theory, but an actual empirical fact.

They lie big and they lie early and they keep on lying. And even when their testimony is proven to be false, they still get away with murder.

 

[Ebeneezer Goode]

Yeah, and in some cases police will sexually assault detainees and lie about it too, which means they must have done in this case (you can tell from the way her hair is ruffled). That's not a conspiracy theory even though it's a theory about people conspiring, it's just empirical fact.

Seriously though, if you remove all of the details and reduce it simply to a question of whether the police might kill someone and lie about it then of course the answer is yes, but why would you remove all of the detail? Obviously because it makes the conspiracy theory far, far less plausible.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

Yeah, and in some cases police will sexually assault detainees and lie about it too, which means they must have done in this case (you can tell from the way her hair is ruffled). That's not a conspiracy theory even though it's a theory about people conspiring, it's just empirical fact.

Seriously though, if you remove all of the details and reduce it simply to a question of whether the police might kill someone and lie about it then of course the answer is yes, but why would you remove all of the detail? Obviously because it makes the conspiracy theory far, far less plausible.

But the details don't make sense as they stand. Firstly the footage that's been released into the public domain from her arrest has been tampered with.

There are discrepancies in documents taken at the time of her arrest - one handwritten form claiming she had said she was suicidal - another claiming she wasn't (her family also claim she wasn't).

She had a possibly broken arm, which she complained about at the time of the arrest, and then later on the phone from the police station - yet she apparently made a makeshift noose secure enough to hold her weight.

I'm not saying she didn't kill herself, but given that when the police kill someone they automatically and habitually cover up their own fuckups/malice, it's right that people are suspicious.

 

[pontoonlew]

But the details don't make sense as they stand. Firstly the footage that's been released into the public domain from her arrest has been tampered with.

There are discrepancies in documents taken at the time of her arrest - one handwritten form claiming she had said she was suicidal - another claiming she wasn't (her family also claim she wasn't).

She had a possibly broken arm, which she complained about at the time of the arrest, and then later on the phone from the police station - yet she apparently made a makeshift noose secure enough to hold her weight.

I'm not saying she didn't kill herself, but given that when the police kill someone they automatically and habitually cover up their own fuckups/malice, it's right that people are suspicious.

Yet again, your fabulous talent of managing to tar an entire country with the same brush based on a staggeringly small minority continues.

 

[Alty]

Bad attitude by both of them, could of been so easily avoided though. Escalating an disagreement when you are meant to be keeping the peace is only going to provoke trouble.

Don't think you can say it is racially motivated from that video alone though, both approached with a bad attitude and got in a shouting match. Whether it was racially motivated in pulling her over or what happens after is another discussion though.

I thought she approached it quite appropriately. She wasn't bawling at him from the off. She was a bit narked and told him as much in a very reasonable way. As soon as he realised he wasn't going to get the obsequious attitude he desired, he started acting like a fucking bell.

 

[TheArtfulDodger]

It's not a criminal offence to be rude either, people acting as if being a bit tarty with a cop is tantamount to provocation need to behave themselves.

 

[mnb089mnb]

It's not a criminal offence to be rude either, people acting as if being a bit tarty with a cop is tantamount to provocation need to behave themselves.

I work near Windsor Castle and sometimes park a couple of miles from the castle to have my lunch.

I once had a car pull up next to me and they wound down the window and asked "Why are you parked here?". I replied quite abruptly "None of your business.". As it wasn't. I assumed it was snooty local residents. I was parked perfectly legally.

I hadn't realised they were police officers.

I had to step out of the car, they did a full vehicle check etc. and asked me lots of questions.

Ridiculous and a waste of everyone's time and money.

 

[mnb089mnb]

I'm not saying she didn't kill herself, but given that when the police kill someone they automatically and habitually cover up their own fuckups/malice, it's right that people are suspicious.

The police and the military should always be held up to the highest standards. Skepticism in cases like this is exactly how we should approach them. If we give the police the benefit of the doubt all the time they'll take the piss - as has been shown many times in the past.

 

[pontoonlew]

The police and the military should always be held up to the highest standards. Skepticism in cases like this is exactly how we should approach them. If we give the police the benefit of the doubt all the time they'll take the piss - as has been shown many times in the past.

I agree, but similarly if you constantly throw out wild accusations at them each time then you're in danger of making one of the toughest jobs in the world that bit tougher.

 

[pontoonlew]

The police and the military should always be held up to the highest standards. Skepticism in cases like this is exactly how we should approach them. If we give the police the benefit of the doubt all the time they'll take the piss - as has been shown many times in the past.

Double post.

 

[Ian_Wrexham]

I agree, but similarly if you constantly throw out wild accusations at them each time then you're in danger of making one of the toughest jobs in the world that bit tougher.

It's not that tough. If I regularly killed people of colour in the course of doing my job, I'd have a disciplinary, or worse.